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ISIS, a new Mideast nation emerging?

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  • User profile image
    JohnAskew

    So the result of Syria's war is Sunni takeover of the south-east of Syria and the north of Iraq by force. Iraq hasn't responded. Syria is unable to respond. Is ISIS capable of persisting or is it doomed?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/world/middleeast/iraq.html?_r=0

     

  • User profile image
    JohnAskew

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/11/world/middleeast/isis-control-map.html

    This shows where ISIS forces are thought to be in control in Syria and Iraq... the Sunni-Shiite proxy war continues...

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    It occurred to me this morning:

    "ISIS are a group of people who want to found a state based on their interpretation of Islamic religion."

    Replace a couple of words and place in the past-tense:

    "The Pilgrims were a group of people who wanted to found at state based on their interpretation of Christian religion."

    I'm surprised the USA isn't more supportive. :P

     

     

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Every time I listen to the news I cannot help but ...

     

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  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    Or this:

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  • User profile image
    TheJoe

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    I'm surprised the USA isn't more supportive. :P

    Thats because the pilgrams did not kill people that disagreed with their religion.  Except for witches.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , TheJoe wrote

    *snip*

    Thats because the pilgrams did not kill people that disagreed with their religion.  Except for witches.

    And the native americans.

     

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    And the native americans.

     

    They were illegals from Eurasia.

    Interesting side note: While we picture native americans on horseback, it wasn't until the Spanish showed up that the horse was used by them in that way.

    BUT, the horse was native to the Americas at one time.  It appears to have been hunted to extinction for it's tasty, tasty meat.

  • User profile image
    TheJoe

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    And the native americans.

     

    Not over religion.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    @TheJoe: Actually, the Pilgrims left Europe because Europe was too liberal and tolerant over religion.  The Pilgrims wanted the "freedom" to be able to kill people over their religion if they wanted to, which is why they left to start their own country.

     

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , TheJoe wrote

    *snip*

    Not over religion.

    Actually the Spanish (via Juan Gines de SepĂșlveda) argued they weren't even human because they showed so much skin that it was ungodly. English speakers argued tattoos were against God and religion and thus they were savages. The relegation from human to savage was backed up with spurious religious reasoning and it's much easier to "civilise" savages, or kill them.

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    The relegation from human to savage was backed up with spurious religious reasoning

    That's weird; I would have sworn it had to do with superior firepower.

  • User profile image
    TexasToast

    Ok so America was stupid a 100 years ago.   We (those living now) are different and not that stupid.   The Germans and Japanese are not the same as those in WW2.   So maybe the problem is the middle east is just lagging 100 years behind and we have to wait it out somehow.  I don't like the argument that since your ancestors did this,  you are now in the same category.  Also,  most Americans are not related to the people who persecuted the Indians.

  • User profile image
    TheJoe

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    The relegation from human to savage was backed up with spurious religious reasoning and it's much easier to "civilise" savages, or kill them.

    You see, they had a choice.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    , TexasToast wrote

    Ok so America was stupid a 100 years ago.   We (those living now) are different and not that stupid.   The Germans and Japanese are not the same as those in WW2.   So maybe the problem is the middle east is just lagging 100 years behind and we have to wait it out somehow.  I don't like the argument that since your ancestors did this,  you are now in the same category.  Also,  most Americans are not related to the people who persecuted the Indians.

    But many do directly benefit from this happening.  It's easy to say we're all good people and would never do this again, now that we have the territory and there's nobody to which we could do it.

    I would have agreed with you prior to 9/11, but since then the US collectively lost its sh*t and forgot about all those awesome freedoms and rights we established.

  • User profile image
    TheJoe

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    @TheJoe: Actually, the Pilgrims left Europe because Europe was too liberal and tolerant over religion.  The Pilgrims wanted the "freedom" to be able to kill people over their religion if they wanted to, which is why they left to start their own country.

    I believe they didn't like the king also being the head of the church.  That's why the separation of church and state is so important in the US.

  • User profile image
    JohnAskew

    @TheJoe: culture is religion, back in those days, so I disagree at a cultural level.

  • User profile image
    JohnAskew

    , TexasToast wrote

    Ok so America was stupid a 100 years ago.   We (those living now) are different and not that stupid.   The Germans and Japanese are not the same as those in WW2.   So maybe the problem is the middle east is just lagging 100 years behind and we have to wait it out somehow.  I don't like the argument that since your ancestors did this,  you are now in the same category.  Also,  most Americans are not related to the people who persecuted the Indians.

    1914 ?  I don't think there were so many slaying of Indians going on at this late a date.

    By around 1895, the formerly vast buffalo populations were practically extinct. That's how the genocide was finally perpetrated.

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