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I'm not happy with Windows 10 (details inside) - am I missing something?

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  • User profile image
    Jamie​Mitchell

    I'm not seeing any justification for me to upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 (with a Start menu replacement). This is my personal opinion (yours might be different) and I realize that the product isn't GA yet - I just wanted to provide some feedback and air my thoughts to see if others agree.

    Windows 10 continues the trend of stripping out desktop functionality to cater to tablet/phone users while placing an emphasis on sub-par services that provide MS long-term revenue streams (Xbox, Groove Music, Microsoft Store, Movies and TV). Let me qualify the following bullet points by stating that I've always been an early adopter that maintained an open mind for change - I didn't mind Vista and got used to Windows 8/8.1 rather quickly.

    • Modern Applications - The Windows store is a commercial failure and the majority of its offerings are terrible substitutes for classic third-party applications (ex. VLC Player, Chrome) or SaaS offerings (ex. Google Music or Netflix). Microsoft - accept the fact that you missed the boat on an app store, providing subscription services and building a viable mobile operating system. I STILL can't uninstall the majority of this bloatware - why Microsoft, why?

    • Edge - Improperly renders a good portion of my go-to websites and doesn't support extensions....back to Chrome.

    • Start Menu - I still don't see how this is an improvement over Windows 7 or Start8 for desktop users (without a touch screen). The tiles are still ugly, the 'Modern Apps' are still worthless compared to third party tools, the 'All Apps' sorting isn't customizable, the icons look poorly scaled...I could go on. The taskbar also suffers from poor icon scaling (why were they made smaller?), shoddy fonts and a mix-n-match of UI prompts. How is this innovative?

    • Dual Monitor Support - I don't see any enhancements from 8.1 for dual monitor users - I do see one major drawback though: independent wallpapers. 8.1 allowed me to assign wallpapers independently to multiple monitors. I run one vertical monitor (for Google Music and reddit) so the wallpaper looks ridiculous when stretched to fit the 1080x1920 screen.

    • Cortana - The speech recognition is poor (with a Yeti Black microphone) and the majority of questions just pull up Bing searches in Edge. More importantly, we lack the ability to customize the search engine or browser that displays results! How is this - in ANY way - an improvement over Siri or Google Search? Voice commands aren't a net new feature - this SHOULD be better.

    • Automatic Driver Updates - Does ANYONE think this is a good idea? I'm all about keeping drivers up to date, but the potentially disastrous negatives vastly outweigh the positives. I've already been burned - my 2nd monitor is freaking out due to a current driver issue, when I revert to a previous versions it gets automatically updated.

    • Multiple Desktops - This is so far behind other solutions that it isn't even funny - why release this until you can compare to multiple desktop techniques from 10+ years ago. I will say that the new Task View is much better than previous iterations.

    • GUI Uniformity - Right click on an icon in the task bar - now right click on a file/folder in Explorer. Some windows look like Windows 7, some look like Windows 10. Title bars are straight up white with oversized minimize/maximize/close buttons that look stretched. Why can't Microsoft build a unified UI framework to save their lives? Boy this is ugly...I love minimalistic and simple UIs, but MS can't seem to scale its own icons/text properly without making it a blurry, headache inducing mess.

    Am I missing something? All this praise for Windows 10 is confusing - is MS backing most of the media coverage?

    (For reference, I'm using a desktop with an i7/16GB RAM/SSD/GTX 970/23" 1080P monitor.)

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    Agreed. This just looks and feels like a giant step backwards. A de-evolution. Looks/feels less professional.

    As if the look and feel fits somewhere between Windows 3.1 and Windows 95.

    It's hard for me to fathom that they spent an incalculable amount of resources to end up with something that is worse, that no-one asked for, all while no-one had any major complains about Windows 7 which would justify such a drastic change.

    The root cause of this change is to make it fit in with MS's mobile strategy. A failed strategy (no, my Surface Pro 3 can't work as a tablet because the tablet apps are missing or simply suck to the point of being unusable).

    Yea, let that sink in for a while... This change was done chasing after a failed mobile strategy. Due to Apple Envy. I love(d) MS, but they are no Apple, so they should stop trying to be like Apple and stop abandoning what used to work.

  • User profile image
    Icthiodrak

    @JamieMitchell: Just what we needed... yet another whine thread.

    If you don't see any reason to upgrade then don't.  Get left behind or move to a different OS.  No one will care.

    So to answer your question... yes, you are missing something.

  • User profile image
    Jamie​Mitchell

    @Icthiodrak: It is a constructive feedback post.

    Do you not value user feedback as a (I'm assuming) good developer?

  • User profile image
    Icthiodrak

    @JamieMitchell: If you have constructive feedback then post it in the appropriate place.  Microsoft has gone to great lengths to give users tools to say what they like and don't like about Windows 10. 

    If you want to give constructive feedback then you really need to work on the tone of your post.  Saying this sucks and that sucks without offering any way to improve upon what you don't like doesn't do anyone any good.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    I'm just going to focus on the following, well, because it's late and I'm sleepy.  And some of your other points are good (yet I don't agree with all of them).  But this one seems to be filled with misconceptions.

    , Jamie​Mitchell wrote

    • Modern Applications - The Windows store is a commercial failure and the majority of its offerings are terrible substitutes for classic third-party applications (ex. VLC Player, Chrome) or SaaS offerings (ex. Google Music or Netflix). Microsoft - accept the fact that you missed the boat on an app store, providing subscription services and building a viable mobile operating system. I STILL can't uninstall the majority of this bloatware - why Microsoft, why?

    Universal Windows Platform apps (aka Windows 10 "universal apps") offer major improvements over previous iterations.  They provide adaptive layout, making it much easier to have your app respond to the size of its window (like many modern websites) and to various input mechanisms.  There are a host of XAML improvements, much improved focus on the desktop paradigm, improvements to interacting with system services, and so on.

    Besides, there will now be legit Win32 desktop apps on the app store (via Project Centennial). 

    The Windows Store is no longer about putting mobile apps on the desktop.  It's about putting desktop apps on the desktop, mobile apps on mobile devices, Xbox apps on the Xbox, HoloLens apps on HoloLens, IoT apps on IoT... and the developer can decide which platform(s) to target, and whether to build all platforms with the same executable binary or with separate binaries.

    This store concept should look quite different from what you were used to in Windows 8.  At least, once Windows 10 apps start appearing and taking over.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , BitFlipper wrote

    It's hard for me to fathom that they spent an incalculable amount of resources to end up with something that is worse, that no-one asked for, all while no-one had any major complains about Windows 7 which would justify such a drastic change.

    This paragraph is really the root of what you're saying, and a big part  of what the OP said as well. And it's simply wrong.

    Yes, Windows 7 was popular, as the OS that "fixed Vista". But there were still plenty of complaints. Many of them the same complaints that have been made here. You can easily find posts on this site complaining that the icons in Windows 7 were a mishmash of Win 3.1, Win95 and XP, with no cohesive design.

    Win10 has actually improved things here, a LOT. That said, I agree it's still a mess. But, it always has been, and frankly, IMHO, the other platforms aren't really any better, other than they have fewer decades of legacy cruft.

    Modern Apps bondsbw has this one correct. Modern apps are not about mobile at all anymore. One could argue they never were, though there's no denying the extremely heavy focus on mobile with all of Win8. If this is your complaint, however, I don't understand why you're on Win8 or how Win10 couldn't be seen as anything but an improvement here?

    Edge this is version 1.0, and as such, is actually a really impressive browser. I'd love to know which sites you visit that are improperly rendered, because I've not seen any yet. Since I doubt you use IE, I don't see how your opinion here matters much, however. If you do use IE and actually think Edge is a step back... I doubt you'll find many that agree.

    Start Menu some of your complaints here are valid, but the hate on the tiles colors your post for me. Don't like them, then get rid of them. Problem solved, no? I do agree, however, that this is an area where they still have work to do.

    Dual Monitor Support I honestly can't comment here. I use dual monitors all the time, but I have yet to install Win10 on such a system. Some of the things you complain about I find surprising, and assuming you're correct this would be a very legitimate complaint.

    Cortana Can't agree with much of what was said. Cortana's voice recognition is far better than any other voice recognition I've used. Far from perfect, but no one's gotten this one down yet. It works often enough to be useful... though I'll be honest I type to Cortana far more often than I speak to her. As for her "just returning Bing searches", well, that's what most people would expect. All of the digital assistants mostly just return a web search. Is the complaint that it uses Bing instead of Google? If so, all I can say is "Duh!"

    Automatic Driver Updates like everyone else does? Yes, in the PC world this is a whole lot more difficult, but regular uses expect it and can't really be expected to update them themselves. This is mostly a damned if you do and damned if you don't area. What they could do is allow people to opt out. That complaint I get, and mostly agree with.

    Multiple Desktops are not really a new feature. They've only exposed it via the shell for the first time. I see little here that I'd consider to be any different than any other OS has done, so I don't get the negativity.

    GUI Uniformit I already covered this. You're not wrong, but it's also nothing new, it's better than it has been, and every other platform has problems here.

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    , Icthiodrak wrote

    @JamieMitchell: Just what we needed... yet another whine thread.

    If you don't see any reason to upgrade then don't.  Get left behind or move to a different OS.  No one will care.

    So to answer your question... yes, you are missing something.



    I'll say it again. MS is not listening (to our kind) and is not interested in our input. They are going a different direction. As am I. I suggest you consider your alternatives JamieMitchell.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    , ScottWelker wrote

    *snip*

    I'll say it again. MS is not listening (to our kind) and is not interested in our input. They are going a different direction. As am I. I suggest you consider your alternatives JamieMitchell.

    There's nothing to say that they aren't listening. Look at the sheer volume of (often conflicting) feedback that they've gotten. If you have any proposals on how to integrate all of that and still have a usable product, the entire software industry would love to know how to do that.

  • User profile image
    Icthiodrak

    @ScottWelker: Then why are you here?  Just because you think something should be different doesn't make it the right way to do it.  If you are unhappy with how things turned out then go someplace else and don't look back.  If you think any other company is going to listen to you even a fraction of what Microsoft does then you are severely deluded.  You think Apple gives a flip about what you think?

    I feel bad for Microsoft at times dealing with all of these spoiled children.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @JamieMitchell:

    Google Chrome and its extensions? Well.... Yesterday my dad told me the laptop I gave to my mom was very slow recently. The internet was much slower than usual. He then, removed only two apps, GoogLe Chrome and Google Toolbar. After that, the laptop is fast again. So, one of them or both, are some kind of malware that slowed down the laptop.

    And as for Google Chrome Extensions, the top3 or top5 largest botnet are using Google Chrome Extensions to do DDoS attacks. Goes to show you how many PC installed Google Chrome Extensions are infected with malwares.

    MS already planned to support extensions on Edge, hopefully not as virus happy as Google Chrome Extensions.

    I will reserve judgement for now. Win10 did the following and I will at last give them some credit.

    1) window mode on WUPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! !!!! !!!!
    2) much much faster app startup. Slow Music is now fast Groove Music, the app start up rivals WMP. Meaning, I finally don't feel like I am forced to use WMP due to startup speed.
    3) Groove Music One Drive private music streaming is pretty awesome to me. And it plays offline.
    4) Groove Music is not slapping me with store.
    5) Mail, Calendar, People are working well so far.
    6) Start Menu with IT happy selections.

    I will reserve judgment for now. At least I did not have same amount of frustration compare to Win8.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , Icthiodrak wrote

    @ScottWelker: Then why are you here?  Just because you think something should be different doesn't make it the right way to do it.  If you are unhappy with how things turned out then go someplace else and don't look back.  If you think any other company is going to listen to you even a fraction of what Microsoft does then you are severely deluded.  You think Apple gives a flip about what you think?

    I feel bad for Microsoft at times dealing with all of these spoiled children.

    This is dangerously close to calling someone on here names.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , ScottWelker wrote

    *snip*

    I'll say it again. MS is not listening (to our kind) and is not interested in our input. They are going a different direction. As am I. I suggest you consider your alternatives JamieMitchell.

    I trust you won't be participating in any more W10 bitchfests then, since you're moving in a "different direction".

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , magicalclick wrote

    @JamieMitchell:

    Google Chrome and its extensions? Well.... Yesterday my dad told me the laptop I gave to my mom was very slow recently. The internet was much slower than usual. He then, removed only two apps, GoogLe Chrome and Google Toolbar. After that, the laptop is fast again. So, one of them or both, are some kind of malware that slowed down the laptop.

    *snip*

    Just by the way Chrome gets covertly installed onto computers through installation of other programs should be reason enough to consider Chrome malware.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

     

    • Modern Applications - The store looks like * since Windows 8. Microsoft does have a great example they can follow, like Apple's app store. But for some reason they stick with this ugly layout.
      Modern Applications are still slow and don't provide anything new compared to the native ones that shipped with Windows XP. Can anyone tell me what's new in Groove Music? Is the videoplayer better than WMP?
      Let's take a look at how the new Mail app in Windows 10 renders HTML emails.

    • Edge - Extensions are coming later but at the moment Edge is too unstable and has worse javascript support than IE11. I'm not going to use it for now.

    • Start Menu - I actually like the fullscreen Windows 8.1 startmenu. I don't see any improvements for me.

    • Dual Monitor Support - Haven't tested this yet as I'm not going to install Windows 10 on my main desktop pc.

    • Cortana - Useless. Just like Bing, Cortana is not available in Belgium so this feature is completely useless to me, just like on the Windows Phone.

    • Automatic Driver Updates - Does ANYONE think this is a good idea? It's indeed not a good idea. For basic motherboard chipset or printer drivers that don't install anything besides a couple of dll's it's ok.

    • Multiple Desktops - Haven't really needed this.

    • GUI Uniformity - Complete mess.

     

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Cortana is a party-trick at the moment, but once they further develop the work on integrating data analysis extensions, it might start to be useful - Hey Cortana, create and open a spreadsheet for me of the last 12mths sales for our widgets, grouped by state and sorted by sales amount.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Just by the way Chrome gets covertly installed onto computers through installation of other programs should be reason enough to consider Chrome malware.



    I believe that's what happened to my mom's laptop. Likely Flash update, cuz my dad said he got it from his desktop through Flash/Acrobat update.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    cheong

    Btw, talking about automatic driver updates, I remember that in the early WinXP's day, one brand of display card used to customize a bit from the original driver made by NVidia to add some customer features then ship it, and in their manual they also explicitly said that do not install driver from NVidia site, you have to install their driver instead to enable all the "awesome" function. Don't know whether they're still doing that, and don't know if their card will be affected by Win10 driver update. (Although I suspect that if they're still doing this, their card won't be able to pass Win7 hardware certification)

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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