Coffeehouse Thread

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Is Build just for Web or is WPF just that dead?

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  • Vaccano

    I know that the current favored UI development API is Win RT (or Modern Applications ...) and that WPF (and Silverlight) are "out of favor".  But I was a bit surprised to note "WPF" is not an option in the search tags for the Build Conference.

    Now I don't follow conferences that close, but I know some are themed (ie "Web").  Is Build a "Web" conference?

    Or is WPF just that dead to new feature development that there are no courses in that 4 day conference that touch on it enough to even warrant adding a tag for it?

    Maybe I should not be surprised after so many things have been killed off.  I know Microsoft can be brutal to "out of favor" stuff.

    Maybe there is nothing new in WPF so there is nothing more to train on?

  • Harlequin

    Wouldn't WPF fall under a conference for desktop apps, C++, unmanaged code, kind of stuff? Thought conferences like Tech Days was more for that.

  • lucianoc

    I think Build it's an all Microsoft Conference. Web, WinRT, Gaming, Drivers, WPF, Sharepoint.

  • wkempf

    , Vaccano wrote

    I know that the current favored UI development API is Win RT (or Modern Applications ...) and that WPF (and Silverlight) are "out of favor".  But I was a bit surprised to note "WPF" is not an option in the search tags for the Build Conference.

    Now I don't follow conferences that close, but I know some are themed (ie "Web").  Is Build a "Web" conference?

    How do you go from talking about Win RT to assuming Build is a "Web" conference? Build is about developing using Microsoft technologies. That includes desktop. However, there's not anything new in WPF, and with all of the new stuff released elsewhere, there's just no reason to focus on it now. That doesn't mean it's "dead", though.

  • Vaccano

    So WPF is not dead, it is just sleeping?

    By the way, when I refer to the Dead or Live status of WPF I am referring to the expansion and improvement of the product.  Not its useability. 

    WinForms is still very useful, but it will not be improved anymore.  Hence I am calling it Dead.

    It is looking like WPF is less sleeping and has actually died. (Or is really breathing shallow Smiley


    As for the conference question, I was not assuming.  I was wondering.  I was guessing that may be a reason that it did not contain any WPF related topics.  It looks like that is not the case. 

  • Richard.Hein

    There is one session on WPF - http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/2-002 ... so it's not completely abandoned, however, I do think F# got left out in the cold.  Shame.  No functional programming related sessions at all. 

  • felix9

    Ah, Apparently Peter Brown is the only one there to keep a 'living' image for those products, WPF & Silverlight .

  • felix9

    , Richard.Hein wrote

    There is one session on WPF - http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/2-002 ... so it's not completely abandoned, however, I do think F# got left out in the cold.  Shame.  No functional programming related sessions at all. 

    Erik Meijer want it too, apparently https://twitter.com/headinthebox/status/263339389353095170

     

  • rhm

    WPF and Silverlight aren't dead in the same way MFC isn't dead - Microsoft added new features to WPF in VS2012  so nobody could say it is dead as such. It's just not being pushed by Microsoft any more and that's why there isn't lots of sessions on them at Build: because Build is essentially a marketing exercise - marketing technologies at developers.

    If it was a training exercise then sessions would be based around technologies that matter to most working developers e.g. SQL Server, ASP.NET, etc. instead of the shiny new stuff MS wants developers to use.

  • wkempf

    , Vaccano wrote

    So WPF is not dead, it is just sleeping?

    By the way, when I refer to the Dead or Live status of WPF I am referring to the expansion and improvement of the product.  Not its useability. 

    WinForms is still very useful, but it will not be improved anymore.  Hence I am calling it Dead.

    It is looking like WPF is less sleeping and has actually died. (Or is really breathing shallow Smiley


    As for the conference question, I was not assuming.  I was wondering.  I was guessing that may be a reason that it did not contain any WPF related topics.  It looks like that is not the case. 

    WPF was updated with .NET 4.5, so by your criteria it's not "dead". Don't expect to see much focus there, though, or on any other desktop related technology, at least for the near future.

  • Dr Herbie

    @rhm: +1

     

    Herbie

  • Bass

    It's pining for the fjords.

  • Richard.Hein

    I met some of the .NET team last night and the story I got was that WPF and Silverlight are part of the "C# XAML family", and the C# XAML on WP8 is internally sometimes called Silverlight 6, but it's not ... so confusing, so there are at least 3 versions of XAML....

  • MasterPi

    Maybe they'll release metro templates for WPF and make the combination the preferred for desktop development.

  • brian.​shapiro

    As long as the Desktop exists, some version of WPF will, but you'll see some convergence between WinRT and WPF in the future, so it may not be called "WPF" anymore.

    The bigger question is what plans Microsoft has with the Desktop. They've said it won't go away; well, okay, but the question is where its going.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , brian.​shapiro wrote

    As long as the Desktop exists, some version of WPF will, but you'll see some convergence between WinRT and WPF in the future, so it may not be called "WPF" anymore.

    The bigger question is what plans Microsoft has with the Desktop. They've said it won't go away; well, okay, but the question is where its going.

    I think the plans for the desktop will be based primarily on the acceptance (or lack thereof) of the Windows 8 Store Apps and the "New Windows" environment. The desktop story makes a nice "Plan B".

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • brian.​shapiro

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    I think the plans for the desktop will be based primarily on the acceptance (or lack thereof) of the Windows 8 Store Apps and the "New Windows" environment. The desktop story makes a nice "Plan B".

    What makes you believe that? When Microsoft refers to Desktop apps as "legacy apps" and metro apps as "modern apps" it doesn't help, I know. But Sinofsky has said he understands the importance of a dedicated mouse+keyboard interface for office, design, and development apps.

    And I couldn't imagine Visual Studio running under the current version of Metro. So I think they're waiting until Metro is seriously improved years down the line to remove the Desktop, or they're serious about the Desktop being permanent and are just postponing major updates on it to get the buzz around Metro.

    If the Desktop is permanent, I imagine Desktop apps will have some type of appx model and ClickOnce installation, and will use the WinRT API, so Desktop apps will be windowed Metro apps, and the nomenclature "modern" vs "legacy" is correct in either case.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @brian.shapiro: My take is that Sinofsky believes computing is moving into a new metaphor filled with touch and other interactions. At last years Build he said something to the effect of "just as your CRTs were replaced with LCDs so will your LCDs be replaced with touch displays". He then went on to demo ASUS's tilt-able "desktop" LCD all-in-one PC. With W8, IMO, he made things unnecessarily painful for desktop/mouse + keyboard users only to push people in the direction he wants them to go -- the Windows 8 Store Apps environment (love that name Wink )

    As for VS and other content creation apps I agree with you but also suspect if the Windows 8 Store Apps environment takes off Sinofsky will continue to push Microsoft, third parties, and other developers to "re-imagine" their applications in Windows 8 Store Apps form.

    IMO, The desktop and its legacy will always be around much like winforms and now WPF/SL. I doubt we'll see a huge investment in it unless Windows 8 Store Apps fail. Things are different at Microsoft now. It's all about Sinofsky's singular vision and right now he holds all of the cards.

    Just remember Microsoft isn't here to dictate what language you write in, APIs you use, or platforms you target; that's up to you to decide... Wink

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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