Coffeehouse Thread

17 posts

Is anyone at MS in charge of listening to our concerns? UI changes, no Cleartype etc.

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  • User profile image
    dentaku

    An interesting thread just got instantly locked talking about Office 2013 not using Cleartype.
    I have to say that Cleartype is one of the most impressive things Windows has when compared to any other OS.
    I can't use IE10 in Win8 because there's no Cleartype and while I don't really use Office (even though I have Office 2007 installed) I can't see I would ever be able to use Office 2013 for any length of time because it would make my eyes water just like IE10.

    At the moment the reason for getting rid of "the amazing invention that is Cleartype" is that it doesn't look good in portrait mode AND MS is hoping everyone will be using super high PPI displays in the near future where Cleartype isn't needed as much.

    I recently posted about starting a new Win8 Taskforce website and Long Zheng said he doesn't have the time to dedicate to this, which is fine, but will we ever get an official word from someone higher up at MS who can show that someone is listening to us people who actually have valid points about the usability of these new Microsoft products?

    Forcing UI elements that are suited to touchscreens onto people who are using non-touch desktops and removing Cleartype hoping nobody will notice because they're all going to be using high-ppi screens anyway is very heavy handed. It's just too much too fast.

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    on a side note:  funny that one company - Apple -  seems to be the only one that is really offering good high ppi displays, I had hoped that the MS tablets would have been spec'ed for that but they did not.  until something happens to push more pc's with better than 100 ppi we are not going to see much happen ....  this is one reason I am actually looking at buying a mac for my next hardware

    just to get a good hi ppi display and an OS that uses it right.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , dentaku wrote

    who can show that someone is listening to us people who actually have valid points about the usability of these new Microsoft products?

    Forcing UI elements that are suited to touchscreens onto people who are using non-touch desktops and removing Cleartype hoping nobody will notice because they're all going to be using high-ppi screens anyway is very heavy handed. It's just too much too fast.

    They want to out-hipster everyone.

    By the way, I've found a forum with a user that makes DeathByVisualStudio and me look very tame.

    http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/155290-windows-8-deeper-impressions/page__st__1400

    You should (must) read the posts by "CharlotteTheHarlot" there. Powerful stuff. I hope I won't get banned for posting this link..

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    @wastingtimewithforums: Great, you've found a couple of forums that obviously suit your personality better than C9.  So why don't you go and hang around on those forums instead?

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums: Great, you've found a couple of forums that obviously suit your personality better than C9.  So why don't you go and hang around on those forums instead?

    I would miss you guys.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    I would miss you guys.

    We wouldn't.

  • User profile image
    CaRDiaK

    @dentaku: They are listening. But they don't want you to make too much noise about it. Don't complain seems to be the current response.

    I wish they could feel my headaches after a few hours.

    We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that needs to be done.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    dentaku

    , CaRDiaK wrote

    @dentaku: They are listening. But they don't want you to make too much noise about it. Don't complain seems to be the current response.

    I wish they could feel my headaches after a few hours.



    Do you have any "official" reason to say this? I'm hoping you know something I don't Smiley

    It looks like either they're afraid to admit they haven't thought this through well enough in the rush for joining in the world of tablets by removing Cleartype and  forcing touchscreen interface UI elements on people who don't have touchscreens OR the people in charge are living in a reality distortion field common amongst giant companies.

    Simply giving us the option to turn Cleartype back on if we choose wouldn't be embarrassing to he company in any way, unlike finally admitting that many of us would be better off if we where given the option to use Win8 in the classic Win7 style UI because we only use laptop trackpads and mice.

     

  • User profile image
    Bas

    , dentaku wrote

    forcing touchscreen interface UI elements on people who don't have touchscreens

    I still don't get what exactly you mean by this. I mentioned dragging down to close last time but that still works via the tried and true Alt+F4 method, and none of the other things you mentioned made any sense to me. The corners aren't a touch UI thing because you don't use the corners in touch. Could you elaborate on exactly what these touchscreen UI elements are that you are forced to use with a mouse and keyboard?

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Channel 9 used to be the place where actual Microsofties hang out...they haven't for quite some time. =(

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Personally, I always thought that Cleartype sucked, and have done everything I can to disable it in Win7 - including font substitution and forcing IE9 to always use ChromeFrame as the rendering engine.

    Cleartype seems to be one of those technologies that works acceptably for most people, but is totally unusable for those who are sensitive to what it does. Unfortunately I'm a member of that minority.

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    , Bas wrote

    *snip*

     The corners aren't a touch UI thing because you don't use the corners in touch.

    Come on. The corners are used to bring up a touch-centric UI element to compensate for the fact that sliding my thumb in from the right hand side of my 20" desktop LCD screen won't do anything.

    Yes, the corners aren't touch UI elements. They're just used exclusively to bring touch UI elements onto the screen. Same difference.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    *snip*

    Come on. The corners are used to bring up a touch-centric UI element to compensate for the fact that sliding my thumb in from the right hand side of my 20" desktop LCD screen won't do anything.

    Yes, the corners aren't touch UI elements. They're just used exclusively to bring touch UI elements onto the screen. Same difference.

    So now the problem isn't the corners, but it's the menus they bring up? Are you saying it's difficult to click the buttons on the charms bar? I just don't see where the "forcing a touch UI upon users" thing comes in. If you could only bring up the bars by simulating touches via click-and-drag, I'd see your point.

  • User profile image
    dentaku

    This video does a good job of describing lots of the problems I have with it.
    I know he's exaggerating and he could take some time to learn some more about how to use Win8 but his points are valid. This doesn't make people think highly of MS's new direction and it annoys people who sell computers because they can't recommend it to anyone. I've seen it myself. The salespeople are completely unenthusiastic about selling a laptop to a regular person because Win8 is quite a bit clumsier to use with a trackpad than Win7.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    @dentaku: This guy's complaints about the touchpad are strictly device-specific (or device driver-specific to be exact). The behavior has nothing to do with Windows 8 itself. On my notebook, about the only gesture that I have is a two-finger swipe to scroll windows.

    His rant about not being able to close Metro apps is simply due to ignorance. There are no less than 3 ways to close a Metro app even without the "X" button.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @dentaku:  This guy claims he will spend 30 days with Windows 8 before making a judgment.  At the very end of the video, he says he only spent 30 minutes on it.  30 minutes is not enough time to make a judgment about any unfamiliar user interface (which I thought was the point of going the full 30 days).

    He had to lie in order to make a point.

  • User profile image
    dentaku

    And I agree with you. I wish he would try again.
    His reactions are still very valid. It's a VERY common reaction to trying to use Win8 on something that's not a tablet and some of his complaints are still valid even on a tablet.

    Giving people the option to use the old Win7 interface and simply letting us turn on Cleartype in IE10 and Office 2013 (I just heard about Office 2013 this week) would be a good start. People could start concentrating on actually USING the new products instead of being frustrated or afraid of them.


    , bondsbw wrote

    @dentaku:  This guy claims he will spend 30 days with Windows 8 before making a judgment.  At the very end of the video, he says he only spent 30 minutes on it.  30 minutes is not enough time to make a judgment about any unfamiliar user interface (which I thought was the point of going the full 30 days).

    He had to lie in order to make a point.

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