Coffeehouse Thread

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Jupiter

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  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    Hey Felix9, what do you know about Jupiter?

    -Josh

    Edit: I didn't see the link from BItFlipper in the Ensuring that Silverlight remains first class thread.

  • User profile image
    Ian2
  • User profile image
    rhm

    I love the title of that thread. Obviously MS staff are under orders from above and in a difficult position, but it might as well say "All of us at Microsoft are going to let the flames lap at our feet until September".

  • User profile image
    LCARSNxG

    One of these days Microsoft will learn how to communicate properly and with a unified message, hopefully. Maybe?

    Until then, it's a shame their customers have to get information covertly via anonymous insiders. Microsoft would do well to heed Mary Jo's advice and do some damage control.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    While this "Jupiter" thing sounds like it should keep Silverlight, .Net and even C++ in the game for writing "immersive" apps, It's not clear to me whether the UI library it will provide is a superset or subset of SL or WPF, or something entirely new. Even though it uses XAML, that doesn't mean the classes have to be the same. It would also need to be usable from C++ and JS so it's possible it will be (next gen) COM based.

  • User profile image
    felix9

    MJF: Jupiter is a user interface library for Windows and will allow developers to build immersive applications using a XAML-based approach with coming tools from Microsoft. Jupiter will allow users a choice of programming languages, namely, C#, Visual Basic and C++.

    sounds like DIRECTUI.dll to me. it actually IS exposed by Windows Runtime (COM vNext).

    Jupiter is aiming to provide these developers with a managed code XAML library, so that developers can access the sensors, networking and other Windows 8 elements in a way to which they're accustomed.

    sounds like other Windows Runtime components (Windows.*.dll) to me, doubt if they are really part of 'Jupiter' but anyway, its part of the whole picture.

    Windows.Devices.Geolocation.dll
    Windows.Devices.Print.dll
    Windows.Devices.Proximity.dll
    Windows.Devices.Sensors.dll
    Windows.Dlna.dll
    Windows.Dlna.ps.dll
    Windows.Graphics.dll
    Windows.Media.dll
    Windows.Networking.Connectivity.dll
    Windows.Networking.dll
    Windows.Storage.ApplicationData.dll
    Windows.Store.dll
    Windows.Store.ProxyStub.dll
    Windows.UI.dll
    Windows.UI.Immersive.dll
    Windows.Web.dll

    P.S. DirectUI.dll itself is 'native code', just like agcore in Silverlight.

  • User profile image
    aL_

    l like MJ but it seems she alwas gets the details wrong..

    jupiter chould be DirectUI vnext but it could also be the SLR, witch inturn could be an implementation of the CLR except written by windiv instead of devdiv.

    to me this seems the most likely, since it would leverage all the exsisting work that has gone into wpf, just running on a diffrent runtime..

    who knows though, jupiter could also be some sort of win32 + managed.. it looks like alot of those Windows.* dlls are coupled to actual windows fuctionality.

  • User profile image
    Dovella
  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , LCARSNxG wrote

    One of these days Microsoft will learn how to communicate properly and with a unified message, hopefully. Maybe?

    Until then, it's a shame their customers have to get information covertly via anonymous insiders. Microsoft would do well to heed Mary Jo's advice and do some damage control.

    Don't bet on it!

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/OK-Microsoft-has-gone-crazy

  • User profile image
    aL_

    @Dovella:

    that thread he link to in that tweet is really interesting:

    there is a dll called 'clrhost.dll', which descript itself as 'For managed server in the Windows Runtime', its version string is "4.0.30319.16698 built by: NETFX4WIN8"

    inside it are some strings start with "NetFx45_" which indicate some settings for .NET Framework 4.5.
    I heard there are some hints about ASP.NET 4.5 inside the server build, so .NET 4.5 is comming.
    there is also a string 'ARMEnabled'

    reassuring, but this is still a PR nightmare Smiley

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , aL_ wrote

    @Dovella:

    that thread he link to in that tweet is really interesting:

    *snip*

    reassuring, but this is still a PR nightmare Smiley

    There is no PR nightmare. One idiot on the Silverlight forums believed that Microsoft would ditch .Net, Silverlight and native apps for HTML5. It's a ridiculous idea to begin with but many other people believed it too without questioning it. Don't blame Microsoft for this stupid case of mass hysteria.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    I assume it was pretty expensive to develop an entire WPF/Silverlight design suite and overhaul most of the presentation layer of VS to aid WPF development in the first place. For this reason, it did not strike me once that MS would suddenly ditch their platforms for some fledging technology used by a smaller portion of the development world.

    Maybe it's because I am a student who has only had a few glimpses of "the industry" (working at a major chip manufacturer now) that I can't fathom that sudden roadblock of the base technologies in my projects suddenly dying out, contributing to massive overhauls of training and large dents in budgets. If a technology is getting deprecated, then I understand that something much better will replace it that will carry forward similar principles and some support to transfer from the old to the new. Heck, it will be probably be even easier to do what I have always done, so any additional training required to learn this new technology will be made up during the actual development experience. If it happens to suck, enough people will whine, halting transition to the new until a version 2 comes out that addresses everyone's concerns. I might be wrong, but this seems to be the trend anyway..the new will either be extremely awesome in terms of productivity and coolness or it will suck until the next version when it will be awesome, and in that period in which it does suck, support for the old will stay as people continue to develop for the old tech. Thus, I don't really mind announcements concerning new apis and technologies as the result could either be good now or later. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , ZippyV wrote

    *snip*

    There is no PR nightmare. One idiot on the Silverlight forums believed that Microsoft would ditch .Net, Silverlight and native apps for HTML5. It's a ridiculous idea to begin with but many other people believed it too without questioning it. Don't blame Microsoft for this stupid case of mass hysteria.

    One person? Oh really? Ok Mr. Ballmer keep up the "lalalalalala I can't hear you..." mentality. That always works.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    aL_

    @ZippyV:

    its aloooot more than one person.. try the whole internet press save a small few Smiley and yeah, i do blame microsoft. they should know that people/the press will always try to twist their words. they should have been and should be more clear.

    why not mention .net at all? their whole streategy of a 'big reveal' at build is completley flawed. now their just causing confusion amongs more casual devs and more importantly manages (both at .net shops and customers) who dont spend their time on forums like this..

    what they are doing is destroying good will from devs and customers who (rightly) feel left out of the loop, this whole silent treatment, refusing to comment on anything, thats the pr mightmare.. they they could solve it with a single tweet from sinofsky:

    "the traditional platforms will be equal to html/js in win8, we're not replacing anything, just expanding"

    but no, they cant even show their customers that courtesy.. thats the pr nightmare, microsoft ignoring the concerns of their developer base.

    just wait until people realise that the "standards based" html/js is in fact only the exposure of native windows apis in js.. so much for standards based development! same code same markup my butt! then they've burnt their bridges both with traditional devs and the hip new webdevs their trying to attract now..

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , aL_ wrote

    @ZippyV:

    why not mention .net at all?

    It was not a developer audience.

  • User profile image
    aL_

    @ZippyV:

    then why mention the "html/js based application model"?

    if they named one, they should have named the other

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    This is a case where we should shoot the messenger...

  • User profile image
    Charles

    How many of you guys are planning on coming to build? Hope to see some Niners there!

    C

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