Coffeehouse Thread

19 posts

Meanwhile in the open universe...

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  • fanbaby
  • kettch

    Drive-by videos with no comments or conversation wasn't ok when Raymond was doing it six times a day, it's not ok for you either.

  • Bass

    I thought the first video was pretty interesting.

  • fanbaby

    @Bass: Yes. 1) This editor is from Adobe. Adobe! 2) Chrome is becoming like eclipse, that is a massive center of an ecosystem. Like I said in the other thread, IE9/10 might be faster, but the ball isn't there anymore. It's not a matter of who has the fastest browser, but who plays better with others. (And the fact that Chrome is cross platform is magical, for me and my devices at least. The only glaring omission is android 2.3 gingerbread)

  • Craig_​Matthews

    , fanbaby wrote

    ...IE9/10 might be faster...

    On what planet? Honestly, I don't know where you read that, but if anyone is saying IE is faster than Chrome, they're lying.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    1) While that's pretty nifty and speaks highly of what js and linux have accomplished it just seems like all of these layers are just an abuse of Moore's Law. I do like the fact that Linux is so flexible that guys like Ubuntu can build a phone around it that is actually capable of running desktop apps. I just hope the apps aren't too slow and that Ubuntu doesn't make the same mistakes Microsoft and Blackberry have with releasing devices with the idea if they build it apps will come (and\or include poorly written 1st party apps that make the platform looks like crap).

    2) Again, cool idea but my mind bogs on the layers and layers that won't necessarily provide a great experience. IDEs that run closer to the metal (Eclipse and VS) bog down enough even with modern hardware. Maybe this would be good for small projects but IMO anything beefy will make web based IDEs choke.

    3) Hispster much or what it just cold in the auditorium and some other nerd loaded him his jacket? Fur lined boots would go nicely with that jacket.  Devil Bombs away!

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    *snip*

    On what planet? Honestly, I don't know where you read that, but if anyone is saying IE is faster than Chrome, they're lying.

    IMO IE feels snappier for things like startup but for page rendering nothing beats Chrome. I just wish I could have Chrome as the default browser on the desktop and IE for the Windows 8 Store app environment on my tablet.

  • fanbaby

    @kettch: Sorry. I'll try again. The first link is just a tweet which summarizes for me what is happening recently: MAGIC! One possible outcome is that you could teach operating systems course with just a browser. [think about this: Microsoft has close to none of it]

    First video, see above comments

    Second video, I threw in just because of Ashkenas, a modern day hero (some others I follow are Rayn Dahl maker of node, Douglas Crockford explainer extraordinaire, John Resig now working at the Kahn Academy, an Rob Pike one of the creators of Go, the language that will become mainstream)

  • kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Where I work, we've been fiddling around with trying to find out why IE is slower to load some internal applications than Chrome. In our case, it turns out to have nothing to do with rendering but the fact that Chrome doesn't do online certificate revocations, but instead relies on a local cache.

    It makes you wonder how many places besides rendering there are to shave page load time.

    @fanbaby: That's way cool.

     

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Where I work, we've been fiddling around with trying to find out why IE is slower to load some internal applications than Chrome. In our case, it turns out to have nothing to do with rendering but the fact that Chrome doesn't do online certificate revocations, but instead relies on a local cache.

    It makes you wonder how many places besides rendering there are to shave page load time.

    Was that the only reason?

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: There's also a group policy that sets all intranet applications to run in a much older rendering mode, even though it's only needed for a couple of applications. There's also DotNetNuke which seems to make some completely idiotic if IE/if Chrome/if Firefox decisions, even for IE9+.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @kettch: And none of it was related to faster rendering because of Chrome's javascript engine? It was all related to Google's cached approach to cert revokes and special handling IE was setup to do?

  • kettch

    Woah, not sure what happened there...weird posting glitch. I've been getting a lot of latency today.

    @DeathByVisualStudio: The rendering speed is subjectively identical. For everything that matters in our environment IE9+ is every bit as fast as other browsers.

  • evildictait​or

    @kettch: Several seconds of delay is normal for any browser. You might want to take a look at your Wireshark logs to see if the certificate requests are being dropped or blackholed inside your company.

    There may be a difference between IE and Chrome, but it's pretty much never going to be multiples of seconds in either direction unless something is wrong between your computer and the server.

  • kettch

    @evildictaitor: Pretty much why we stopped looking at rendering and javascript as being the culprit.

    Like it or not, IE is now a modern browser that can hold it's own.

  • evildictait​or

    @kettch: Even IE6 and Firefox 1.1 doesn't take multiple seconds to render a page :/

  • kettch

    @evildictaitor: Yeah, it has nothing to do with render. It's definitely the certificate revocation list. IE does online checks, and Chrome doesn't. Apparently when they were first setting up one of our applications that needed SSL, they ended up issuing and then revoking 20+ certificates. Right now we think that there's some issue with why our CA is taking so long to validate them.

  • evildictait​or

    @kettch:

    Which CA are you backing your SSL certs from? Is it an internal private CA, or is it an online one like Comodo? Checking revocation is a pretty quick thing to do. It shouldn't take seconds unless the packets to your CA are getting blackholed and your connections to the CA are timing out.

    It's more secure to check the CRLs than to not check them, so IE is doing the right thing. This feels like a network problem rather than an CA one though, since on my machine IE can start an SSL connection to google or facebook in an instant, CRLs and all.

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