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Microsoft admits Direct3D and GPU's are not designed for gaming

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  • User profile image
    androidi

    @Blue Ink:

    That's much closer but not exactly the same as the kind of game and musical scenarios I'm discussing. That sounds more like a "singular" or "relatively rarely repeating" pattern/game.

    In TrackMania fullspeed tracks and music, the predictable patterns repeat so often that after warming up you get much better in accuracy.

    It takes me usually 1-3 hours of warming up (after days/weeks of not playing) to play keyboard at <10 ms accuracy, this is sort of similar to TrackMania, where if I kept weeks/months of break, I wouldn't perform well enough in my favorite tracks* without some warm up play. (*unable to reach finish due to error accumulation which reduces the window of opportunity to time the action accurately in the "full acceleration/speed required" tracks)

     

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , androidi wrote

    @Blue Ink:

    That's much closer but not exactly the same as the kind of game and musical scenarios I'm discussing. That sounds more like a "singular" or "relatively rarely repeating" pattern/game.

    In TrackMania fullspeed tracks and music, the predictable patterns repeat so often that after warming up you get much better in accuracy.

    It takes me usually 1-3 hours of warming up (after days/weeks of not playing) to play keyboard at <10 ms accuracy, this is sort of similar to TrackMania, where if I kept weeks/months of break, I wouldn't perform well enough in my favorite tracks* without some warm up play. (*unable to reach finish due to error accumulation which reduces the window of opportunity to time the action accurately in the "full acceleration/speed required" tracks)

     

    I hate tracks that can't be finished unless you play them flawlessly. I want to be able to do the first run really really slowly and horrible just to get a feel of where I'm supposed to go, and then I'll work on getting the speed up. But with required full speed tracks, you just end up being unable to make a jump and then when you finally do make it past that part you have no idea what to expect so I immediately crash (and watching the "GPS" does not work for me, I won't remember it unless I've driven it myself).

    Similarly back when I used to play piano I would start out slow but once I began to internalize the movements I could get up some good speed. Not as fast as this guy though (the insanely fast bit is at the end of the video):

    Note that a piano, because of the mechanical movement of the hammers, has some pretty large lag between keypress and sound. Wink

  • User profile image
    androidi

    , cbae wrote

    By definition, any game that DEPENDS on millisecond precision suffers from really shitty gameplay.

    This deserved a response of its own:

    Some of the best games outside the adventure and RPG genres are those that offer enough incentive/advantage for those that master controls in a high precision manner. Now I don't like street fightning games, I am talking about things like BF1942 Desert Combat helicopter controls. 2 weeks of constant crashing to get a handle on it, but it's extremely rewarding and the controls manage to create great feel of flying and "gravity", creating a much more fun experience than anything in any other game because they didn't try to simulate a real helicopter but the controls, I am told, resemble more the feel of flying a RC helicopter in "3D" show-manner, which is no doubt a ton of fun too until you crash!

    The helicopter controls are so much worse in rest of the Battlefield series that many DC players quit playing the game as DICE/EA didn't keep those controls, the DICE/EA choppers fly like a friggin school bus with an anti-gravity device in comparison and you can't do similar flying atleast using keyboard (maybe with the aid of a gamepad you can) since the keyboard controls don't have that precision. It's just a whole lot of fun flying in DC with a keyboard as your both hands fingers get a full workout keeping the thing in air.

     

  • User profile image
    androidi

    @Sven Groot:

    re: TrackMania

    It's possible you encountered either too advanced tracks (sounds like it) or missed a trick or two. After playing a lot of fullspeed tracks I can quickly spot some bad track design as well - though "bad" can also be interpreted in a way that there's some trick you need to know. If there's some unfamiliar thing causing failures I may watch and play against the world record times as some of the subtleties are hard to discover. These are easily found online.

    Personally I don't like tracks with great deal of jumps & loops or no acceleration in the first half of the track. This is because if these conditions exist, the track actually becomes more difficult as those elements drain your momentum so much that the rest of the track becomes impossible if you make a slightest mistake in those early elements. Accelerator tiles are more forgiving usually, the tracks where you must drive through accelerator tiles perfectly to reach the finish exist but I see them less often on the servers I play as those jumps & loops tracks. Typically in "smooth tracks" if your wheels aren't oriented straight going in and coming out of loops and jumps, speed is lost or you crash at the edge. Line up to the loops/jumps early and avoid any drifting or wheels coming off the ground at any point of the track in these "smooth" tracks. Any corrections done inside loops really eat the momentum/speed.

    Best beginner track in my opinion is Phase 2 by Socius. Most fun tracks are: ESL - Midnight Skillz` 3, Toxin Flash 2 and Wallride City. I can probably play them at my current skill quite easily even with a laggy computer and LCD, but it won't be nowhere as fun as on a low IO latency setup and for beginner with high latency LCD these are probably torture.

    The learning approach I used for the more difficult fullspeed tracks was to download both the world record replay and another replay that's closer to the time that you can play. Watch the tricks in the world record replay and play against the one that you have hope of beating using the stuff in the wr replay.

     

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @androidi: I forgot who you are. Yes... Games are super slow for you and they are not designed well.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    androidi

    @magicalclick:

    Complete "bollocks" as they say in the UK. I don't like fast games like platformers. The TrackMania fullspeed maps are more about flow and feel only fast if you aren't familiar with them, there's no collisions to other cars. BF1942 Desert Combat mod plays very slow compared to other FPS. It's all about the flow & controls, rhythm/pacing and the atmosphere if it's an adventure or rpg. It's very hard to act precisely or correctly to random input. I like things that are predictable yet positively surprising. (In games with exploration, some randomness done cleverly can be very good though)

    This personally very influential concert for example is quite slow for most part yet works due its precise timing that you can sort of anticipate as a listener. I just love it when music is well thought out and makes sense. The other extreme is called "guitar noodling".

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    , androidi wrote

    @Blue Ink:

    That's much closer but not exactly the same as the kind of game and musical scenarios I'm discussing. That sounds more like a "singular" or "relatively rarely repeating" pattern/game.

    ...

    I was simply pointing out that there's plenty of games you can write and play at 60fps, regardless of what kind of lag Direct3D and GPUs introduce, as long as it's constant.

    But 60fps is not set in stone: even in XNA you can speed up the game loop (or use a variable speed one), as long as your hardware can keep up. The problem is that higher graphic details are more likely to drive sales rather than a massively faster game loop.

    (a hybrid approach, with a faster input loop is technically possible, but it's just a nightmare to pull off)

    So yes, you have a point: in some conditions games don't simulate reality faster than humans can interact with it, but that has nothing to do with the technology being used. It has to do with priorities and what is considered to be good enough for the industry.

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