Coffeehouse Thread

152 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

Microsoft have outdone Apple. Period!

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    elmer

    On a desktop computer with a large screen, Metro feels like a powerpoint presentation.

  • User profile image
    Richard.Hein

    I was definitely talking about more than just the UI; the big picture is what matters.  I think the UI is great for a lot of things and the desktop is great for a lot of things and that's the position they are taking with this.  A happy medium, until someone makes apps that create newer paradigms that make sense on vastly different form factors, and that will happen, naturally, over time.

     

  • User profile image
    Proton2

    Using at least 2 monitors on a desktop machine (or while your tablet is docked) makes for a much nicer experience for those not yet used to the new Metro interface, like me.

    I am considering getting a third monitor that supports touch, especially since I want to test the touch aspects of any apps that I create.

    Hey, when did spell checking get enabled on this forum? Is that new for Windows 8?

    I'm not sure what I am more thrilled about, the new Metro stuff, or that Hyper-V is now built into the client. Smiley

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    Guys the UI isn't the issue here. While I hope I'm repeating what someone else has said as I haven't had time to read all of the threads...

    The elephant in the room here is the strategy. Microsoft wants devs to produce a bunch of 99 cent "fast and fluid" lightweight consumer grade apps. This isn't a replacement for the desktop nor a new home for LOB apps. WinRT/Metro is a Windows 8 only game. Only those who can afford to be limited to selling their apps on Windows 8 should use WinRT/Metro. It's like Rogaine -- once you start using it there is no going back.  

    For us LOB apps guys we'll be stuck on the sunsetted Silverlight/WPF/.NET stack or moving over to ASP.NET (and Azure if Microsoft had their way). Most improvements will be made to the WinRT API (i.e. networking, XAML). And no you can't use WinRT in a Silverlight app (yes you can PORT a Silverlight app to WinRT/Metro but that's a whole other enchilada.)

    IMO, Microsoft is back to their old bundling ways, Instead of going for rich and reach with Silverlight on multiple platforms their going for embedding a phone OS on Windows (like IE was originally bundled in Windows) in hopes that by being the default consumers would grow to accept WinRT/Metro as "just enough".   Their "reach" comes from getting Windows 8 on as many devices as possible. Being that WinRT/Metro is a Windows 8 only gig their hoping to retain their install base just like their did with bundling IE originally.

    What's different this time around (and as proven by their lackluster results with Zune, WP, and regaining market share with IE) is that the market is saturated with iOS and Android devices. The Microsoft guys I've talked to all talk about the vast numbers of Windows desktops out there and still consider the iOS and Android numbers a rounding error in comparison.

    Don't get me wrong; I want Microsoft to succeed here. I've enjoyed the homogenous environment that I've had the luxury in developing software for but the landscape is changing quickly. From my experience with the dev preview tablet they still have a long way to go before Windows 8 is ready. Every day that goes by makes it that much more difficult for Microsoft to regain that mind share they once had. 

    Now back to my work on Android...

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @fanbaby: I am not looking for a flame way, but I did request those man enough.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @W3bbo: The trues success if in that it is a completely audacious design.

    Most of your complaints will be addresed. If we dont have a

     private void SetUI()
    {
    if(MultiTouch.IsEnabled)
    {
    
    this.MetroUI.IsEnabled = true
    
    }
    
    else
    
    {
    
    this.MetroUI.IsEnabled = false;
    
    this.ClassicDesktopUI.IsEnabled = true;
    
    }
    
    this.ClassicDesktopUI.IsEnabled = true;
    
    }
    

    then there will be far too much dissapprobation. Microsoft need to accept their legacy, I am afraid, and much as they say that WinRT is the way everyone should now develop their applications, this simply is not going to happen. If the Windows team can show me a complex application that is more than a RSS reader or game then there clearly will be a co-evolution of the two desktop paradigms.

    For now they should be satisfied that they needed a strong tablet competitor, and they have blown the iPad out of the water into smithereens with something far more audacious and beautiful than an iPad.

    What remains is Sony or someone to really go to town and create some exciting hardware, and the tablet war is now a two horse race, with Apple really showing inadequacies and deficiencies in their iOS software, that will require a serious amount of reengineering.

    Bravo Win 8, all the way!

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    ,DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Guys the UI isn't the issue here. While I hope I'm repeating what someone else has said as I haven't had time to read all of the threads...

    The elephant in the room here is the strategy. Microsoft wants devs to produce a bunch of 99 cent "fast and fluid" lightweight consumer grade apps. This isn't a replacement for the desktop nor a new home for LOB apps. WinRT/Metro is a Windows 8 only game. Only those who can afford to be limited to selling their apps on Windows 8 should use WinRT/Metro. It's like Rogaine -- once you start using it there is no going back.  

    Well, you've just saved me a couple of minutes typing.

    The people 'calling for Ballmer's resignation' weren't doing so because he was alienating developers. To be honest, Microsoft's developer relations and tooling have always been vastly superior to Apple's. No, the problem has been not having a clue how to sell to the mobile market. They had lots of developer support for WP7, but no one actually bought the phone.

    I love the Metro UI, but this cramming all of Windows into a tablet; haven't they tried this a couple of times before?

    All the screams of approval are coming from developers (and that is important), but these are the same people who don't understand why WP7 is failing in the marketplace.

    And as you said, these won't see the light of day until 2012. Let's not assume Apple and Google will just sit around waiting for it to land.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @sysrpl: The operating system offers both, that is the true stregnth, yes choice is restricted now, but if you don't have atouch PC, then I am certain there will be an option to get rid of the metro.

    This is also a bit of a warning to Microsoft in that they doo need to concentrate on the dektop as well, as that will be very important as well, but I accept thay they need to prommulgate their new audacious design at present

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    sorry for typos, rushing to work, no time to proof read

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    Anyone seen MediaCenter in Windows 8 yet?

    And as to developing on Windows 8;

    We will make stuff happen, we will work around the caveats! We are developers!

    Seriously;

    We are geeks, experts, gurus. We want full control, not some boxes we can push. But we also have to realize, we are a very very small minority. Windows 8 will appeal to 99% of all windows users. And I welcome the new platform, because it's now very easy for me to come into contact with end users via the marketplace.

    Developers are water!

    errrr,...

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    @vesuvius: I really thought you were sarcastic with your initial post. Wow.

    EDIT: Surly, you don't think that Apple is biting its fingernails thinking: run for the hills, the Borg is coming. (I care about Apple as much as I care about Silverlight, thank you)

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    @Maddus Mattus:I understand that it is coming in a later build (pretty sure I read a quote from Sinofsky to that effect but damned if I can find it now)

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    @Ian2: hope they do something cool with Kinect, because I don't have a Touch Ready (tm) television set yet Wink

    My son thinks it is, he's so used to phone 7, he wants to swipe to his favorite episodes. Very fun to not be able to see the movie because of off the fingerprints on the screen.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    @Maddus Mattus: I bought screen wipes for the PC monitor, but with two children I now keep them by the TV.

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    @Dr Herbie: Would be cool to see those little ones stand in the H pose infront of the tv, to get mediacenter to notice them Smiley

    This whole metro thing just screams mediacenter to me. I love how they did the menus in mediacenter on W7, I just hope they didnt take that personalisation stuff into it in W8. As with my family, everyone interacts with it, not just one person.

    If they did integrate all that social stuff, it would be awesome if they integrated your family into some sort of hub.

    We'll see, I'm excited!

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    Oh and ontopic;

    Microsoft has always outdone Apple. No doubt about it. Sure Microsoft had their moments of weakness, but;

    Apple is a closed eco system, money to be made only by a chosen few and mostly by Apple. Now that even seniors are using their products, they are losing hipness fast!

    Microsoft is a partner organisation, they provide the best developer tools in the world! Allowing all hardware manifacturors to participate, wether it's a tablet, phone or a desktop pc. Enabling businesses world wide to write their own apps and tailor the platform to their own needs!

    If you want to compare Apple to Microsoft, you should also include all Microsoft's partners in that equasion.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    ,DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

     The Microsoft guys I've talked to all talk about the vast numbers of Windows desktops out there and still consider the iOS and Android numbers a rounding error in comparison.

    To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "For Microsoft to succeed it's not necessary for Apple or Google to fail"

  • User profile image
    Bass

    @vesuvius:

    I must admit, the BSOD is very nice.

    Generic Forum Image

    That's on boot, of course. I guess it's too much work for the largest software company in the world to test their flagship operating system on popular virtual machine platforms.

    Thus far I must give a Windows 8 a 1/10, the one point being for the pretty BSOD. Perhaps I'll get it to work eventually, but IMO if I can get Gentoo Linux or FreeBSD to install in a VM without problems, I expect a "professional" and "user friendly" OS to be similar, even a prerelease.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.