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Microsoft pulls-in effort to kill Ethernet!

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  • User profile image
    cbae

    , Sven Groot wrote

    ...to think that MS is involved in some kind of conspiracy to kill wired connections is frankly absurd even for you.

    *cheevo unlocked*

  • User profile image
    Ion Todirel

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Just pulling the cable is far easier (on a laptop/tablet).

    you do realize that removing the cable does not turn off the device (the NIC), which is the case in airplane mode?

  • User profile image
    dahat

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Why is it unsupported? Pretty much all x86 base drivers work in Windows RT.. except Ethernet.

    Rather than make broad claims like "pretty much all"... if you took a little time you might quickly realize which kind of drivers work and which don't.

    I'll give you a hint... plug in a USB webcam (even one from Microsoft) into a Windows RT device and see what happens.

    Allow me to save you some time: No driver will be found and you won't be able to use it.

    Does this mean we have a conspiracy not only to kill off Ethernet but also external webcams?

    Clearly the "big monitor" lobby got someone in Microsoft, just like someone from "big-wifi" clearly got in in order to try to kill competition in a rather silly way.

    Blowdart said exactly what the reasoning is for this, sorry you don't want to accept facts.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , figuerres wrote

    for starters WiFI is a way to connect that uses ETHERNET ... if they removed Ethernet then no local wifi would work.

    Typically this is the case, but WiFi is not actually defined as an interface to Ethernet (IEEE 802.3)

    WiFi is a subset of IEEE 802, which deals with LAN/MAN variable-size packet networks.

    WLAN (as defined by IEEE 802.11) can be used as an interface to multiple types of networks, or just as a standalone WLAN with no Ethernet backbone. e.g. a WLAN in promiscuous mode.

     

  • User profile image
    cheong

    Microsoft had declared for a long time that NO DRIVERS FROM UNAUTHORIZED VENDOR IS PERMITTED for WinRT. What's the problem?

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , dahat wrote

    *snip*

    Rather than make broad claims like "pretty much all"... if you took a little time you might quickly realize which kind of drivers work and which don't.

    I'll give you a hint... plug in a USB webcam (even one from Microsoft) into a Windows RT device and see what happens.

    Allow me to save you some time: No driver will be found and you won't be able to use it.

    Does this mean we have a conspiracy not only to kill off Ethernet but also external webcams?

    That's not comparable because the Surface has a webcam built-in already.

    You make it sound like a technical decision. But it's political:

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfwinrt-surfnetwork/how-i-connected-the-surface-rt-to-wired-ethernet/67e195d9-ba9d-4649-96e0-6d2e0ededd18

    Apparently these drivers mentioned in the linked post work without any problems.

    OK, let's say the reason for all this just for more simple: To sell more Surface Pro devices. Still lame for Microsoft to take down third party Ethernet drivers.

    Quotes from link:

    A company named Pluggable makes several USB to Ethernet adapters 10/100 & 10/100/1000.

    This company has posted on their website that they were requested (demanded) by Microsoft to remove the drivers for their products that are compatible with the Surface RT.

    ..

    Great guide tonyman.

    I received my adapter from plugable today and installed the "banned" drivers on my RT. Finally

    I can use it in the office. Really strange policy by MS to limit working functionality for their users

    If someone bought a Surface, it's their device and they can install whatever they may wish. I know, not very cool to say this in today's prison IT.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Jesus Christ.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    How many consumers use a wired network these days?

    I really don't think it's that many.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @Ray7:*Hands up*

    Wiring is inevitable because of those thick walls. Wireless signals cannot travel pass them. (I actaully have to position my phone pointing to corridor in order to use WiFi in my bedroom. No signal at the bed side of the room.)

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    Ray7

    , cheong wrote

    @Ray7:*Hands up*

    Wiring is inevitable because of those thick walls. Wireless signals cannot travel pass them. (I actaully have to position my phone pointing to corridor in order to use WiFi in my bedroom. No signal at the bed side of the room.)

    Fair enough, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of other people who do. I'm just thinking that there's no way to plug an iPad into a wired network, but that doesn't seem to causing too much of a problem.

  • User profile image
    WithinRafael

    The real reason is simple -- the device in question (ASIX chipset-based dongle) was not certified to work with Windows RT.

    In my preliminary testing, the device, for example, does not behave correctly when entering Connected Standby. If you're lucky, the vendor will make the changes needed to meet the Windows Hardware Certification Requirements and repost drivers. (Or if you're unlucky, the hardware just isn't cut out for the needs of today's devices.)

    Given Windows RT cannot be configured to load test signed drivers (see: SecureBoot), I presume the driver floating around was provided by Microsoft to ASIX for internal dev/test use only. Given it was pulled and later blacklisted in 8.1, I can only assume (until my testing is complete) that the drivers sucked across one or more facets (e.g. quality, perf, and battery life).

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    @Uxtheme Rafael:

    If that's the reason why this specific driver was pulled, ok.

    But it shows that there is no technical reason to exclude Ethernet drivers. The fact that the driver does work (albeit with a few bugs maybe) is proof that there is nothing in Windows RT or the ARM architecture or whatever to prevent Ethernet.

    So Microsoft not making the Ethernet driver from W8 available to RT is yet another arbitrarily restriction for no good reason (if MS doesn't want to "waste" the few MB, they could put it on the download center).

    But yeah, I admit, my theory why they are doing this was a bit over the top. After the mad abilities of Xbone's Kinect (for advertisers), Sinofsky's cynical and manipulative handling of questions on the building 8 blog, Microsoft trying to sell Office 2013 licensing as improvement for the users, Microsoft killing SBS and proclaiming that "nothing has really changed, lol", claiming everywhere that "the start button" will come back in 8.1, while fully knowing that just the sprite in the corner alone is not what people complained about, and the other myriad examples of deceit of the past 18 months,  I just expect more in that vein from Microsoft. But the truth in this case seems to be far simpler: It's just yet another way to push the far more expensive Surface Pro units.

    After all, if no one needed Ethernet, MS wouldn't have produced this:

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.276582800

    So all the suckers who bought Surface RT and thought they could use the advertised USB port to full extend (Microsoft doesn't say that the USB abilities are gimped!) got shafted for buying cheap. Not a bad lesson though.

  • User profile image
    WithinRafael

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    @Uxtheme Rafael:

    If that's the reason why this specific driver was pulled, ok.

    But it shows that there is no technical reason to exclude Ethernet drivers. The fact that the driver does work (albeit with some a few bugs maybe) is proof that there is nothing in Windows RT or the ARM architecture or whatever to prevent Ethernet.

    So Microsoft not making the Ethernet driver from W8 available to RT is yet another arbitrarily restriction for no good reason (if MS doesn't want to "waste" the few MB, they could put it on the download center).

    There's no Ethernet port on the Surface RT, so there's no driver...

    But I think you meant to say "Compared to Windows 8 (e.g. Surface Pro), I don't understand why Windows RT (e.g. Surface RT) has a higher bar for device driver certification".

    I suspect it boils down to: battery life (or The Experience). Windows RT was created for mobility scenarios where users want/expect battery life parity with, say, a smartphone. Or iPad. A device driver that doesn't follow the rules drains battery and impacts those very scenarios. The Experience is then degraded. (This is also why we don't get desktop apps on Windows RT -- too many power hungry unoptimized APIs, not enough testing by the devs, etc...)

  • User profile image
    WithinRafael

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    After all, if no one needed Ethernet, MS wouldn't have produced this:

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.276582800

    So all the suckers who bought Surface RT and thought they could use the advertised USB port to full extend (Microsoft doesn't say that the USB abilities are gimped!) got shafted for buying cheap. Not a bad lesson though.

    Well, the description does mention Surface Pro explicitly, but I agree, this is terribly confusing.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Uxtheme Rafael wrote

    *snip*

    Well, the description does mention Surface Pro explicitly, but I agree, this is terribly confusing.

    I meant the description of the ports on the Surface RT itself.

    Microsoft gives the illusion on the Surface page that the USB ports on the RT are in no way restricted, and comparable in ability to the ports on PCs. Which is patently untrue as we found out.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Apparently these drivers mentioned in the linked post work without any problems.

    Wait... so if the drivers work, what's the problem!? The limitations in WindowsRT are to do with driver signing requirements, so if you've found a way to get Ethernet to work via a driver in one of your links on WindowsRT, what you've just done is disproved your entire hypothesis that WindowsRT doesn't support Ethernet.

    If Microsoft don't like your driver, they don't "ask you to remove it" and then cry when the drivers leak online. They just revoke the signature for the driver and then it wont load any more.

    Hence we can conclude that by the very fact that you have yourself demonstrated a clear example of a USB to Ethernet device which is Microsoft signed and loads on WindowsRT, we can see that all the rest of this thread is mainly utter nonsense.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Hence we can conclude that by the very fact that you have yourself demonstrated a clear example of a USB to Ethernet device which is Microsoft signed and loads on WindowsRT, we can see that all the rest of this thread is mainly utter nonsense.

    That driver is blacklisted in 8.1 and Microsoft demands from the vendor to pull it from their homepage.

    Why they haven't revoked the signature, I don't know (maybe it would break the driver in Windows 8 too?). But the above is apparently what happened.

    , evildictait​or wrote

    what you've just done is disproved your entire hypothesis that WindowsRT doesn't support Ethernet.

    That was never my hypothesis! Quite the opposite. My hypothesis was that WindowsRT DOES support Ethernet, and Microsoft is blocking it artificially. Others in this thread tried to construct a technical issue for this (Dahat: "if you took a little time you might quickly realize which kind of drivers work and which don't.").

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @wastingtimewithforums: I can see several scenarios where user is only allowed to use USB Ethernet adapter in the local network. So, I hope MS would support the use case, otherwise, this will be a major point for me to stay away from recommending RT to mom and pops. Personally I like RT, but, lack or internet connectivity is a major turn off.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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