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Microsoft spoof , no more DirectX

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  • magicalclick

    http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-false-alarm-we-arent-backing-away-from-directx-7000010647/ seriously, no matter how you to want to make a mistake, this is almost like saying you want to phase out Visual Studio. I mean come on. I would rather say I got hacked instead of saying I make a mistake.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • evildictait​or

    What a mess.

    XNA/DirectX => XNA boolean-anded with DirectX (i.e. The product that is XNA that is DirectX under the hood), 

    not as most people read it

    XNA/DirectX => XNA boolean-ored (or semantically anded) with DirectX (i.e. both XNA and DirectX).

    Hence "XNA/DirectX is being retired" meant "The product XNA that uses DirectX is being retired" in the mind of the writer, but "XNA and DirectX are both being retired" in the mind of the journalists.

    Backpedaling? Probably not. Tragic mistake due to the ambiguities of English? Definitely.

  • felix9

    @evildictaitor: NO, read the original mail, it says:

    Presently the XNA Game Studio is not in active development and DirectX is no longer evolving as a technology.

    Its very clearly worded, no ambiguities.

  • Sven Groot

    @felix9: That's pretty much true, though. DirectX's improvements since DX9 have had very little impact, and 99% of games made since Vista came out still primarily target DX9, even today. Of course, that's largely the fault of the Xbox. If the next Xbox supports DX11, I'm sure games will start targeting that instead.

    And have there been any changes to any component other than D3D since DX9? I can't think of any.

  • cheong

    Talking about DirectX, just want to note that "X Factor" (column that talks about DirectX development) is coming back to MSDN Magazine.

    If Microsoft really want to drop this technology, there's no need to bring back this column.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • evildictait​or

    @felix9: I wonder if they meant Managed DirectX, which certainly has been dead for years, or even DirectX as opposed to Direct3D which has also been on the decline.

    Dropping DirectX per se sounds baffling, since its a critical component in DWM, puts Microsoft right at the core of major graphics discussions such as those with NVidia and ATI, it's critical to WinPho, supported in Win8 including Metro-mode, and as far as I can tell, due to be the graphics subsystem used by the Xbox-720.

    It just doesn't "sound right" that Microsoft would drop support for DirectX as a whole. It's like them announcing that they're dropping audio support from future versions of Windows. When you read it you can only come to the conclusion that they either "said it wrong" (like the word refers to something else internally to externally).

  • felix9

    @evildictaitor: your conclusion is pretty much the same as the original post: https://ventspace.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/directxxna-phase-out-continues/

    Its just poorly worded.

    But, recently we've heard too much things from Microsoft that 'doesnt sound right' in the first, but have different level of truth in it, like 'Silverlight is DEAD'(we heard it before SL5 was released), 'Start menu is DEAD', 'XNA is DEAD', 'Desktop is LEGACY', '.NET is deprecated, JavaScript is your futrue', 'No WP7 or CE tablets, Windows (7) is for tablets!' etc etc, we really can't be sure, pretty much anything can happen these days.

  • magicalclick

    @felix9:

    Shivers, because some of your "doesn't sound right" appears to be facts now.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • evildictait​or

    , felix9 wrote

    @evildictaitor: your conclusion is pretty much the same as the original post: https://ventspace.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/directxxna-phase-out-continues/

    Its just poorly worded.

    But, recently we've heard too much things from Microsoft that 'doesnt sound right' in the first, but have different level of truth in it, like 'Silverlight is DEAD'(we heard it before SL5 was released), 'Start menu is DEAD', 'XNA is DEAD', 'Desktop is LEGACY', '.NET is deprecated, JavaScript is your futrue', 'No WP7 or CE tablets, Windows (7) is for tablets!' etc etc, we really can't be sure, pretty much anything can happen these days.

    I think perhaps the take-home message from that is that you shouldn't read too much into what the Microsoft Press office, individual executives or even in this case official Microsoft mailshots, because often they say things that the responsible team knows is false (such as Desktop being "legacy" or ".NET" being deprecated).

    Of course, I'm sure some people will take it as a leak from those evil wizards up in the black towers of Redmond, (and since everything dies eventually if they wait long enough I'm sure they'll be back with an "I told you so" when they eventually cancel product X many years down the line), but it looks to me more like an epic case of incompetence from whoever sent out the mailshot.

  • PaoloM

    I think there's a problem in how Microsoft communicates with outside of the campus.

    For example, calling a technology "legacy" doesn't mean that it's obsolete or abandoned. The day after Vista shipped, for example, everybody in the Windows team called it (Vista) legacy, as opposed to the new OS that was in development, to avoid internal confusion.

    That makes perfect sense within the organization, but when exposed to the outside world, where these words have different attached connotations, it creates confusion.

    Another aspect is the continued effort from all the industry to use acronyms and shorthands to indicate concepts that could be very well communicated in a plainer fashion. Just yesterday, an architect in my team kept using a couple of acronyms (because that's what they do all day in their job) when in a meeting with the business team. I noticed that their eyes were glazing away and I interrupted with "hang on a sec. Guys, do you know what <xxx> means? No? It stands for blah blah blah". Took two seconds and everyone was happy. But that happened because there was an immediate interaction and explanation, and that's hard when you communicate via email or press releases.

  • magicalclick

    Anyway, on the side question. DirectX spoof aside, it is saying XNA is on its way out. So, what's the plan for those fun Xbox indie games and Xbox Live Arcade games? Is there any similar offering for Xbox720? I think it would be cool to have a simple C# based gaming development platform that targets Xbox 720, Windows Phone 8, and Windows 8 Metro Apps. I am not informed about this, but, games like Shogun Skull works on all three devices, so, are they using something like XNA or what?

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • evildictait​or

    , magicalclick wrote

    So, what's the plan for those fun Xbox indie games and Xbox Live Arcade games?

    I think the statement that XNA is dead will come as a surprise to the folks in WinPho and Xbox. At the moment, I'm just assuming that the person writing the email was an idiot and was closing the XNA/DirectX forum and noting that XNA Game Studio and Managed DirectX are dead, rather than providing an official "XNA and DirectX are dead" change of strategy type of statement.

    , PaoloM wrote

    For example, calling a technology "legacy" doesn't mean that it's obsolete or abandoned. The day after Vista shipped, for example, everybody in the Windows team called it (Vista) legacy, as opposed to the new OS that was in development, to avoid internal confusion.

    That makes perfect sense within the organization, but when exposed to the outside world, where these words have different attached connotations, it creates confusion.

    ++. Inside of Microsoft, Windows8 and Office 2013 are now described as "legacy" components / applications.

    Also there's a strange notion in the press that stuff executives say or any inferred statement from a single Microsoft email constitutes an official position by Microsoft. All too often we see executives saying something silly because they don't know or got the wrong end of the stick, or an email pronouncing the death of a core Windows technology gets taken at face value.

    A lot of this is a consequence of Microsoft's abandonment of the press; there's certainly a feeling at MS that "haters gonna hate" and that there's no point talking with the press or doing effective communication because it'll end up backfiring, and so people that should be taught to deal with the press aren't, and the press jump or infer too much from misleading scraps of emails because of an information vacuum caused by Microsoft's inability to have a unified press strategy.

    They just need to come out and say what they say all the time internally: That technologies and frameworks have a ten year shelf life, and that Microsoft goes to major efforts to avoid people's apps built on Microsoft's frameworks from ever dying. If developers got that through their heads, they'd realize that Silverlight probably still has a longer shelf life than Flash, that apps written in XNA are most likely going to run on the XBox after the XBox 720, and that Age of Empires will not only run in desktop mode on Windows8, but it'll probably run in desktop mode on Windows9, 10 and 11.

    Or to put it another way, for the 99.99% of new apps written for a legacy Microsoft component, the legacy component will still be there, supported, upgraded and actively fixed for years after your app has died for other reasons. Case in point: You can still run edit.com - a program first debutted by MS in 1991 on Windows 8-x86. A full 22 years later.

  • felix9

    , magicalclick wrote

    games like Shogun Skull works on all three devices, so, are they using something like XNA or what?

    Yes, it uses MonoGame. http://monogame.net/news/2013/01/30/skulls-shogun-release

  • figuerres

    , PaoloM wrote

    I think there's a problem in how Microsoft communicates with outside of the campus.

    For example, calling a technology "legacy" doesn't mean that it's obsolete or abandoned. The day after Vista shipped, for example, everybody in the Windows team called it (Vista) legacy, as opposed to the new OS that was in development, to avoid internal confusion.

    That makes perfect sense within the organization, but when exposed to the outside world, where these words have different attached connotations, it creates confusion.

    Another aspect is the continued effort from all the industry to use acronyms and shorthands to indicate concepts that could be very well communicated in a plainer fashion. Just yesterday, an architect in my team kept using a couple of acronyms (because that's what they do all day in their job) when in a meeting with the business team. I noticed that their eyes were glazing away and I interrupted with "hang on a sec. Guys, do you know what <xxx> means? No? It stands for blah blah blah". Took two seconds and everyone was happy. But that happened because there was an immediate interaction and explanation, and that's hard when you communicate via email or press releases.

    Nah really ?  they have a problem ? 

    no bull there ....  they seem like the gang that can't shoot straight.  that plus they way they have handled stuff like Silverlight has a lot of folks not trusting them with any of the platforms.

  • evildictait​or

    , figuerres wrote

    no bull there ....  they seem like the gang that can't shoot straight.  that plus they way they have handled stuff like Silverlight has a lot of folks not trusting them with any of the platforms.

    I completely agree. Silverlight was a great product, and it was a mistake for Microsoft to move away from it; particularly to do so with such bad style.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    Clearly Microsoft has made this bed (lack of trust) through poor communication, executive decision, and execution. No one should be apologizing for their ineptness. They can do a better job and should be held accountable. It really sickens me to see the repeated "let's give them the benefit of the doubt" and then long after the rumor or miss-communication is proven to be true (in part or in whole) the same folks fail to acknowledge that Microsoft screwed up or dismiss it because it was only partially true even thought the part that was true is still significant.

  • evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Clearly Microsoft has made this bed (lack of trust) through poor communication, executive decision, and execution. No one should be apologizing for their ineptness. They can do a better job and should be held accountable. It really sickens me to see the repeated "let's give them the benefit of the doubt" and then long after the rumor or miss-communication is proven to be true (in part or in whole) the same folks fail to acknowledge that Microsoft screwed up or dismiss it because it was only partially true even thought the part that was true is still significant.

    I don't think anyone is under any illusions that Microsoft sucks at generating positive messages in the media; but I think it's wrong to assume that based on a few mistakes by Microsoft management that they are a bunch of bumbling idiots, or that Microsoft as a whole makes consistently bad choices.

    Microsoft genuinely does get a worse deal in the media than similar technology companies in the same space.

    How much hate has Microsoft got for "forcing apps into the App Store"? How much hate did Apple get for exactly the same decision?

    How much hate did Microsoft get for changing the interface in Office 2007? How much hate did Google get for changing the interface in Gmail, or how much hate Ubuntu got with Unity.

    How much hate did Microsoft get for stopping development on Silverlight? How much hate did Apple get for discontinuing PPC, or Google for killing Google Gears?

    How much hate did Microsoft get for introducing UAC? Contrast with how much hate Apple have got for entirely disabling Java.

    This is the biggest problem that Microsoft has. For some reason, whenever MS does something wrong, it is seen as a horrendous mistake on apocalyptic proportions, and yet when any of their competitors do an identical, or in some cases more egregious action, it's entirely dismissed by the media and large sections of the IT community.

    Microsoft - and frankly their competitors - would be better if we held all technology companies to the same standards. Keeping on at Microsoft as if everything they do is pure evil and that all of their competitors are knights in shining armour is one of the reasons why Microsoft has got like this, and one of the reasons why Sinofsky found so little resistance to the notion of "let's not tell anyone anything, since it'll only backfire".

    If we criticised Microsoft only for the things they actually did wrong, and stopped trying to condemn them for things that don't matter (like WTWF claiming that sidebar Gadgets being deprecated in Windows8 was something anyone gave a damn about), then Microsoft might listen more. If we (as a technology community) were better at choosing our battles with Microsoft, we might win some of them, whereas when we waste precious air fighting the battles that have been lost (like the start menu) or which don't matter (like sidebar gadgets) then Microsoft just gets really good at ignoring you.

  • MasterPi

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Microsoft - and frankly their competitors - would be better if we held all technology companies to the same standards.

    +1

    Surface capacities woes, e.g.

    If we (as a technology community) were better at choosing our battles with Microsoft, we might win some of them, whereas when we waste precious air fighting the battles that have been lost (like the start menu) or which don't matter (like sidebar gadgets) then Microsoft just gets really good at ignoring you.

    Even if you argue reasonably, constructive criticism goes beyond just sitting around a table and discussing issues and solutions in a calm manner. It also means arguing for solutions that are actually feasible, that have some chance of actually coming to light. On your end, you can come up with ideal solutions that work for everyone, but if you have no view of the discussions happening inside, those ideas just might not make any sense in light of the company's vision/goals.

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