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Microsoft spoof , no more DirectX

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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @felix9: this is incredible that mono side of things blossoms.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Microsoft genuinely does get a worse deal in the media than similar technology companies in the same space.

    I disagree. This isn't a fair comparison. If you're the market leader of course you will get more negative and vocal responses when you change something than if you hold some meager percent of the market.

    How much hate has Microsoft got for "forcing apps into the App Store"? How much hate did Apple get for exactly the same decision?

    In Apple's case they went from telling developers to write HTML apps to providing them an SDK and a means to market them via their app store. The iPhone was new and not entrenched like Windows so there was nothing to compare the change to. Later Apple did get a lot of backlash by publishers when they started demanding 30% of subscription fees.

    How much hate did Microsoft get for changing the interface in Office 2007? How much hate did Google get for changing the interface in Gmail, or how much hate Ubuntu got with Unity.

    Google has managed people's expectations better by leaving their products in a perpetual state of beta. That's not a good thing and they have gotten some grief over that. They also do better in the transition by allowing people to keep or go back to the old layout for some time. Ubuntu and linux in general have too small of a user base to be measurable nor a concern for the press.

    How much hate did Microsoft get for stopping development on Silverlight? How much hate did Apple get for discontinuing PPC, or Google for killing Google Gears?

    Apple's transition from PPC to Intel is what a lot of people wanted; better parity with PC users on peripherals, expansion and the like. Plus they did a pretty good job on app compatibility. Google Gears? Really? How many people did that change impact vs. those in the Silverlight camp? 

    How much hate did Microsoft get for introducing UAC? Contrast with how much hate Apple have got for entirely disabling Java.

    Like Google Apple has done a better job in managing people's expectations. They've always been controlling and "protective" of their users. That's why some people buy their products in the first place.

    This is the biggest problem that Microsoft has. For some reason, whenever MS does something wrong, it is seen as a horrendous mistake on apocalyptic proportions, and yet when any of their competitors do an identical, or in some cases more egregious action, it's entirely dismissed by the media and large sections of the IT community.

    This is such an over simplification it's not funny. It's a great excuse for Microsoft to ignore their customers however.

    Microsoft - and frankly their competitors - would be better if we held all technology companies to the same standards. Keeping on at Microsoft as if everything they do is pure evil and that all of their competitors are knights in shining armour is one of the reasons why Microsoft has got like this, and one of the reasons why Sinofsky found so little resistance to the notion of "let's not tell anyone anything, since it'll only backfire".

    If we criticised Microsoft only for the things they actually did wrong, and stopped trying to condemn them for things that don't matter (like WTWF claiming that sidebar Gadgets being deprecated in Windows8 was something anyone gave a damn about), then Microsoft might listen more. If we (as a technology community) were better at choosing our battles with Microsoft, we might win some of them, whereas when we waste precious air fighting the battles that have been lost (like the start menu) or which don't matter (like sidebar gadgets) then Microsoft just gets really good at ignoring you.

    It seems to me that Google and Facebook both get ding'd pretty well for privacy issues. Apple with its now giant iOS user base is now starting to feel some of Microsoft's pain. Just look at the Maps debacle as an example.

    Regardless to what degree of fairness Microsoft feels its getting from its users or the press that should not be a reason for Microsoft to simply ignore the issues nor for us to continue to blindly give them the benefit of the doubt in turn.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    I disagree. This isn't a fair comparison. If you're the market leader of course you will get more negative and vocal responses when you change something than if you hold some meager percent of the market.

    Under what definition does Google or Apple not constitute a market leader in their respective markets?

    Also, Apple's backlash for charging 30% for subscriptions is minuscule compared with the hate that Microsoft gets for introducing the Windows Store.

    Google has managed people's expectations better by leaving their products in a perpetual state of beta. That's not a good thing and they have gotten some grief over that. They also do better in the transition by allowing people to keep or go back to the old layout for some time. Ubuntu and linux in general have too small of a user base to be measurable nor a concern for the press.

    Whilst it's true that Google manage people's expectations better, they are no better at the actual work on the ground than Microsoft. Google cancel frameworks that people rely on (remember Google Gears and the personalized home page with apps on?), they change layouts with only very limited ability to go backwards (I can't go back to the 2006 layout in Gmail, but I can go back to Office 2007 with the disk I still have for it), and they are routinely now slapped down for bad practices towards their customer's data (hence the EU and US government starting actions and imposing fines against them).

    And yet Google remains the darling in the minds of many developers, and the bogey man Microsoft can do nothing right in their eyes.

    Apple's transition from PPC to Intel is what a lot of people wanted; better parity with PC users on peripherals, expansion and the like. Plus they did a pretty good job on app compatibility. Google Gears? Really? How many people did that change impact vs. those in the Silverlight camp? 

    Tell that to my Dad whose PPC computer stands idle in the garage now that not even Firefox runs on it anymore. Thanks Apple. Also there was a time when even I wrote apps for the Google personalized homepage. Look how that worked out. Thanks Google.

    Don't get me wrong; Silverlight had a big following in industry. But then so did Google Gears, and the community of app-writers for Google's homepage was not small.

    This is such an over simplification it's not funny. It's a great excuse for Microsoft to ignore their customers however.

    You might think that, but it's the prevailing attitude in Redmond. I routinely hear PMs say stuff like "Whatever we do it's going to be unpopular, so we might as well do X", or dismissing concerns as "haters gonna hate". The bit that's not funny is that whilst some journalists and commentators seem to have enjoyed Microsoft-baiting - indeed it's commonplace for developers to assume that Microsoft is evil and that their software is terrible - that this leads to worse products for them in the end.

    How many people have been online saying "Oh, actually Microsoft, Metro has some really nice apps, like Fruit Ninja, like the Bing news reader app, and the videos app - that's actually pretty neat" compared with how many people have just spread FUD by stating that it's the end of the Desktop, that not having a button in the bottom left is "so unintuitive as to make the OS unusable" or that "there is no demand for Metro".

    And what percentage of people condemning Windows8 have actually used it on real hardware?

    Exactly. It's almost a competitive sport online to see who can hate at Microsoft the most. And people wonder why Microsoft doesn't listen.

    If you refuse to give Microsoft credit for the stuff they do right, they'll not pay attention to you when you complain when stuff is wrong. That's human nature. If you complain constantly, people tune you out.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Under what definition does Google or Apple not constitute a market leader in their respective markets?

    Also, Apple's backlash for charging 30% for subscriptions is minuscule compared with the hate that Microsoft gets for introducing the Windows Store.

    *snip*

    Whilst it's true that Google manage people's expectations better, they are no better at the actual work on the ground than Microsoft. Google cancel frameworks that people rely on (remember Google Gears and the personalized home page with apps on?), they change layouts with only very limited ability to go backwards (I can't go back to the 2006 layout in Gmail, but I can go back to Office 2007 with the disk I still have for it), and they are routinely now slapped down for bad practices towards their customer's data (hence the EU and US government starting actions and imposing fines against them).

    And yet Google remains the darling in the minds of many developers, and the bogey man Microsoft can do nothing right in their eyes.

    *snip*

    Tell that to my Dad whose PPC computer stands idle in the garage now that not even Firefox runs on it anymore. Thanks Apple. Also there was a time when even I wrote apps for the Google personalized homepage. Look how that worked out. Thanks Google.

    Don't get me wrong; Silverlight had a big following in industry. But then so did Google Gears, and the community of app-writers for Google's homepage was not small.

    *snip*

    You might think that, but it's the prevailing attitude in Redmond. I routinely hear PMs say stuff like "Whatever we do it's going to be unpopular, so we might as well do X", or dismissing concerns as "haters gonna hate". The bit that's not funny is that whilst some journalists and commentators seem to have enjoyed Microsoft-baiting - indeed it's commonplace for developers to assume that Microsoft is evil and that their software is terrible - that this leads to worse products for them in the end.

    How many people have been online saying "Oh, actually Microsoft, Metro has some really nice apps, like Fruit Ninja, like the Bing news reader app, and the videos app - that's actually pretty neat" compared with how many people have just spread FUD by stating that it's the end of the Desktop, that not having a button in the bottom left is "so unintuitive as to make the OS unusable" or that "there is no demand for Metro".

    And what percentage of people condemning Windows8 have actually used it on real hardware?

    Exactly. It's almost a competitive sport online to see who can hate at Microsoft the most. And people wonder why Microsoft doesn't listen.

    If you refuse to give Microsoft credit for the stuff they do right, they'll not pay attention to you when you complain when stuff is wrong. That's human nature. If you complain constantly, people tune you out.

    I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree. IMO your statements are miss-scoped and exaggerated in order to make your point. You've shown me even recently that there is no amount of proof or time a person who is critical of Microsoft can spend with a Microsoft technology that will ever justify the criticism. You'll just bend their words in order to diffuse their argument and "protect" Microsoft.

    It's Microsoft's loss if they only listen to those who tell them what they want to hear or to cop the attitude of "Whatever we do it's going to be unpopular, so we might as well do X". That the attitude of the defeated.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    I summarized your statement thus:

    ... you started this thread with "Unfortunately...[Microsoft] blew [the release of Surface]", "Windows [is] bloated", "[Surface] is painful" and "Read it and weep" is a bit rich.

    This is what you actually said: I've highlighted in bold so it's obvious that everything I quoted you actually said, and that in context the meaning is the same.

    I was hoping the Surface Pro finally show us that Microsoft was serious about redefining Windows. Unfortunately just like the Surface RT they blow it on the free disk space issue. 23 GB free on a 64 GB drive? Who are they marketing this to? They'd need to put out a 256 GB version to have enough capacity for the work I do. The 128 GB/ 83 GB free may be big enough for some office workers but we all know as apps and Windows bloat over the years this space will hardly be enough.

    Are they assuming people will buy these every year like iPads and start fresh? Having all you data in the cloud would make a wipe and reload less painful? (and let's forget about the need for a local cache for our cloud-based files)

    This really feels like Microsoft is finally trying to push the world the Network Computer.

    Read it and weep...

     

    I don't think I was twisting your words. You actually said all of the things I quoted. I wasn't even changing the meaning of your words. In context, my summary demonstrating that you load your posts with negativity feels pretty accurate. You genuinely were saying that Windows is bloated, that Microsoft blew the release of Surface and that we should "Read it and weep".

    That's not twisting your words. It's just holding up a mirror to what you actually said.

    If you feel like my summary is an inaccurate portrayal of your own words, I apologise. But from here, it looks like a pretty accurate summary.

    Also complaining that people deliberately misquote you when ( a) they don't and (b) you do is completely hypocritical.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @evildictaitor: Context is king and that's where you won't win the thrown. 

    You said I said:

    [Microsoft] blew [the release of Surface]

    I actually said:

    Unfortunately just like the Surface RT they blow it on the free disk space issue.

    You conveniently left out the latter to change the scope.

    You said I said:

    Windows [is] bloated

    I actually said:

    Window bloat

    Now my mistake here was not to provide enough context, fare enough, but you injected your own context. I later clarified what I meant in a later post

    I didn't claim that Windows is bloated. Apps grow with data & updates and Windows grows with Windows Updates -- you know all of that stuff in Windows\Installer & Windows\WinSxS. All of that clogs a drive.

    You said I said:

    [Surface] is painful

     I actually said:

    Having all you data in the cloud would make a wipe and reload less painful?

    That was a question, not a statement. It wasn't portraying Surface as painful. You did.

    And all we're left with is:

    Read it and weep

    Weep about what? Oh that's right the disk space issue. I think that's a fair criticism of Surface.

    *Edit*: Changed quote format.

    *Update*: Missed responding to this:

    If you want things to change around here you need to stop setting the bar. That post was an obvious "raising of the mirror" to your practice of twisting peoples words.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    @evildictaitor: Context is king and that's where you won't win the thrown. 

    You said I said:

    [quote]

    Unfortunately just like the Surface RT they blow it on the free disk space issue.

    I.e. "they blew it". You didn't say that they could have improved it with more disk space. You said they blew it by not having enough. Your words, not mine.

    Windows bloat

    Can only be there if Windows is bloated. You chose to use the word bloat. That's your word, not mine.

    Having all you data in the cloud would make a wipe and reload less painful

    Something can only be less painful if it is currently painful. You could have said make it more usable. You didn't. You said less painful. That's a pretty negative spin.

    Read it and weep

    Not much you can say about that. That's your words, quoted letter-for-letter.

    If you want things to change around here you need to stop setting the bar. That post was an obvious "raising of the mirror" to your practice of twisting peoples words.

    Looks more like a childish personal attack because you didn't like seeing your own words read back to you.

     

    I'll let other people judge as to whether you said what you said. I don't frankly care whether you think I was trying to twist your words. All I can say is that I wasn't trying to. You accused me of being negative and I pointed out that you didn't exactly start the thread in a positive light. I said it how I saw it, and I'll let other people judge as to what you said.

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    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    I'll let other people judge as to whether you said what you said. I don't frankly care whether you think I was trying to twist your words. All I can say is that I wasn't trying to. It looked like you were being negative, and I said it how I saw it.

    Likewise, it looked like you were being delusional but I'll let other people be the judge as to whether your twisting of my words qualifies.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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    evildictait​or

    @DeathByVisualStudio:

    Cool. So you've decended into personal attacks, called me a liar and just called me delusional, derailed the entire thread, and you wonder why people call you a troll.

    Cheevo unlocked; Third thread derailed and locked in as many days.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio:

    Cool. So you've decended into personal attacks, called me a liar and just called me delusional, derailed the entire thread, and you wonder why people call you a troll.

    Cheevo unlocked; Third thread derailed and locked in as many days.

    You're forgetting it takes two to tango. Let's take a look at the score shall we?

    Seems to me you started the personal attacks here:

    Looks more like a childish personal attack because you didn't like seeing your own words read back to you.

    So I'm childish now? That goes nicely with the liar inference you've made about me in resent threads.

    I think we're 1 - 1 on locked threads. This one was closed when you posted you're twisted version of what I said.

    In this thread my last post did close the thread but I find it funny that it was an example of your great work in misconstruing peoples words.

    Liar? That's a stretch but then again stretches are you're specialty. I'm sorry if that's the way you feel.

    Face it EvilD you are no better than I in keeping these threads positive and on topic. If it's a criticism that you disagree with then the person making it is disingenuous at best and more likely a troll in your book.

    Oh and this thread's not locked yet...

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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