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Microsoft still in denial phase over W8.. possible "relaunch" in February

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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/24/windows_8_blame_game/

    Exclusive Microsoft blames PC makers for underwhelming Windows 8 sales over
    Christmas, The Register has learned. The software giant accused manufacturers of
    not building enough attractive Win 8-powered touchscreen tablets.

    ...

    But the computer makers are fighting back: they claimed that if they'd followed Microsoft's hardware requirements and ramped up production, they'd have ended up building a lot of high-end expensive slabs that consumers didn't understand nor want.

    ....

    Our well-placed source said that bad sales combined with PC makers "ignoring" Microsoft's advice has left Redmond executives fuming.
    ...

    Now Microsoft is planning to reboot its launch of Windows 8 next month. On Tuesday the company gave 9 February as the date for the US and Canada unveiling of the Intel-powered Surface Pro tablets. But sources tell us Microsoft is actually preparing for a February "relaunch" of Windows 8.

    "Microsoft is not blaming itself for not selling enough Surface, it's blaming OEMs for not having enough touch-based product," our supply chain source said. [!]

    No, it could have nothing to do with the dozens UI of issues and various usability regressions of W8, that thing is just perfect! Boy, they have really thick skull with this so-so product. It's like they are in collective trance. Just like with the new Office.

    So, W8 relaunch in February.. The most dormant time frame of the year for commerce.. This will be surely a hit!

    And what's with the obsession that "touch" is the savior in this? Quote from another blog: 
    ---
    Proclaiming that the future of computing is "touch" is like saying the future of eating is by using your fingers.

    Knives and forks? How primitive! Roll up your sleeves and get in there and get dirty! WEEEEEEE!!!! The only button that matters anymore is the 'PURCHASE NOW' button...because we don't actually do anything useful on our machines except stare slack-jawed at moronic YouTube vids.
    --

    Also, read this.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    I think there are a lot of people hoping that if they report a failure then maybe it will come true.

    IMO It is way too early to declare anything.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Ian2 wrote

    IMO It is way too early to declare anything.

    That excuse gets old. Three months of failings in the market is enough for a re-evaluation.

    Windows 8: Weak sales, multiple usability experts slam it, people all over the net post huge posts going through all the various UI disasters of it (and this time Windows devs and admins, not the usual anti-MS brigade) annoyed partners and OEMs, longtime developers speaking out against it, mostly sub-par reviews..

    Even science magazines join the W8 slam:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-touch-screens-will-not-take-over

    And for good reason.

    The bestselling notebooks on Amazon.com run ChromeOS and MacOS now.

    and the bestelling notebook on Amazon Germany runs .. DOS!

    Seriously, here's the top 10 list.

    Asus F55A-SX091D

    It was released on November 6, 2012 - just in time for for the W8 release.

    Screenshots:

    http://s2.postimage.org/kfxowusd5/DOSbook1.png
    http://s2.postimage.org/mztbqyfx5/Dos_Notebook2.png

    You know a Windows version is bad if such a product is the Number One bestseller since months.
    There is a law in Germany that allows the re-selling of OEM Windows versions. That means you can buy "refurbished" Win7 versions very cheaply (they cost around $70). It's very likely that people buy this DOS notebook and put one of these Win7 OEM versions on it (otherwise they would buy just a W8 device. The cheap W8 upgrade version also can't be installed on blank HDs).

    It's NOT NORMAL that a DOS device is the number 1 seller in one of the wealthiest markets. Without W8, this wouldn't have happen.

    W8 is doing worse than Vista in stats, despite the Christmas boost. let not forget that.

    Complaints common to Windows releases: interface details, hardware suitability, bugs, sticker price.

    Complaints NOT common to Windows releases: high profile employee termination, public mudslinging at external entities, 52 week stock lows RIGHT AFTER RELEASE, significant sales slowdown, massive price hikes on other products to compensate for slow sales, near universal lukewarm to negative press, expensive marketing campaigns that produce no results, DOS devices being number one sellers right after release of new Windows version...

    Even the W8 standlone upgrade is doing badly:

    http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-software/zgbs/software#1

    The more expensive Win7 Home Premium is selling better than W8 Pro upgrade.

    Clinging to Windows 8 as it is right now is not rational on Microsoft's part.

  • User profile image
    Heywood_J

    Why are you still beating this dead horse?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Heywood_J wrote

    Why are you still beating this dead horse?

    It's a discussion point. Do you think they will indeed "relaunch" it in February?

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    @wastingtimewithforums: So much BS in your rant, as usual. Nothing to see, move along.

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    In all honesty, I think Microsoft released Windows 8 a little too early. Just like they released Windows Vista a little earlier than it was ripe, and like they released Windows Me the same way.

    From a business point-of-view, that's not such a bad thing. There's good news in that.

    While it means that they will not have much immediate revenue from it, the good thing is: it will get talked about a whole lot. That will give Microsoft feedback and time to fix things until the product matures.

    In time, I think Windows 8 will be a robust and successful operating system. All ground-breaking products take time to mature. In a sense, Windows 8 is a trail-blazer but they took it out too soon.

    While in the short term, it seems like bad news for everyone, from the long looks of it, it's good business sense.

    My weird review here: http://sathyaish.net/writing/WindowChange.aspx

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    I hope Windows 8 fails simply so that MS is forced to admit they made a mistake, and then "relaunches" Windows with the desktop unfuglified and with full original functionality restored ("Due to popular demand, we are bringing back the original desktop functionality...nudge nudge, wink wink...).

    There is no reason to castrate the desktop for the sake of Metro. Metro can co-exists alongside a full functional desktop that should be a refinement/evolution of what we had in Windows 7, not some Frankenstein monster that most desktop users seem to hate.

    And this horse isn't really dead since this is a big issue and will continue to be a problem for MS until they fix it. Those that like to pretend nothing is wrong are free to ignore threads with titles that clearly show what it is about.

  • User profile image
    Hometoy

    Keeping in mind that media hypes up anything they can represent as "controversial" or attempt a "train-wreck" kind of slow drive-by by rubberneckers to read their articles/blog posts.  In other words, out of a dozen "journalists", maybe one or two spent more than 15 minutes on Windows 8, have never tried anything other than Windows XP and maybe 7 (which are very similar to each other in my opinion) or started in with the mind-set of "this is going to suck, I just need to find details...".

    I did not say, however, that Windows 8 is any good (or bad).  

    Personally, I have gone through some UI changes on the Linux front (Gnome2, Gnome -shell, Unity, KDE, Xfce, etc.) and the one thing I have gathered from this is that you cannot go into a new interface and expect it to run just like the other interfaces.  It's a mind-set that most people haven't had to use because Windows has predominantly stayed the same in a UI manner since 95!

    So Microsoft is starting something new, a new UI and a new "philosophy" of how to navigate the system. This after waking up and realizing the world has gone on without them and IE 6 is no longer the only browser in the market (let alone Office, Windows Server, etc.).  It's taken a while for them to rub the sand out of their eyes, and I think they are still working on their first cup of coffee but at least they are shambling around like a Monday morning zombie.

    The OEMs, though, are grumbling and whining about having to change their way of thinking, to include touch, mobile devices, power AND efficiency and more device-like computers than the old beige boxes sitting on a desktop.  Coupled with strong Apple sales and a slower economy to navigate through and they have had to actually... um... work!  Innovate!  Come up with something more than same-old-same-old.  And just to help drive home the point, now they have to compete with Microsoft themselves!  Gosh, guess they can't be caught sleeping at the wheel anymore.

    Microsoft "rebooting" Windows 8 does make some sense.  The name "Vista" became synonymous with "sucks" and though it was more of a bug-fix and polishing up of Vista, "Windows 7" has become the heir of Windows XP's mantle of being the most popular operating system (of the world).  

    Technical issues will exist regardless of how long they tested and developed the OS, especially at the size and and magnitude Microsoft and Windows exist. Really what Microsoft needs is a marketing "reboot", not a technical one!

    Hopefully they have learned.  They have had 3+ months of real-world feedback that they could address so that Windows 8 Pro on Surface can benefit from it and have fewer flaws.  The world has had 3+ months to learn how to operate this new UI.

    I think that Microsoft needs to push the education (books, video, blogs, etc.) on HOW to work the Windows 8 interface and push the deals to get it into the hands of people so they can get used to the new interface.  Also, there are plenty of improvements "under the hood", let people know how it benefits them whether it be safety, security, stability or even putting into place a framework that can easily handle massive changes in the near future.

    Now is their time to push and push hard on it; Apple is looking old, Linux's competition is still young and the mobile market is young enough that nothing is set in stone.  

    Yet.

  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , Sathyaish Chakravarthy wrote

    In a sense, Windows 8 is a trail-blazer but they took it out too soon.

    A trail-blazer? They have been doing operating systems for decades, tablets for 10 years, and had the Metro UI out in Windows Phone for several years. How can Win8 be referred to as a trail-blazer in light of that?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Hometoy wrote

    Personally, I have gone through some UI changes on the Linux front (Gnome2, Gnome -shell, Unity, KDE, Xfce, etc.) and the one thing I have gathered from this is that you cannot go into a new interface and expect it to run just like the other interfaces.  It's a mind-set that most people haven't had to use because Windows has predominantly stayed the same in a UI manner since 95!

    No, the problem is that Windows 8 is a solution in search for a problem. have any of you tought before W8 "dang, I wish I could stretch my arms out to poke the screen!" ? The tablet and smartphone form factors are entirely different in handling to how you use a PC or laptop most of the time.

    The apparently lackluster sales and extreme opposition to W8 show it. And all the "wait & see" stuff and claiming it's all just because unfamiliarity doesn't cut it. The iPhone and iPad were unfamiliar too, yet they sold. But with Windows 8 we've got rejection reactions like DOS computers being number one bestsellers in major markets to avoid W8. Pretty much all the market reactions have been considerable negative.

    This comment nails it:

    And the Windows 8 disaster unfolds as predicted by thousands of analysts and technical evaluators, all of whom were 100% ignored by supremely arrogant and completely tone-deaf Microsoft management. It's going to be one of the worst years in a very long time for PC vendors and retailers, and it's all because those fools stupidly drank the Windows 8 Kool-Aid without considering what was in the cup.

    Touch screen laptops were a miserable failure two years ago when they were promoted as the next "must have" gadget. Don't know why Microsoft thought things would be different now. No one really needs touch on a PC, and all Windows 8 does is turn a vastly overpriced touch-screen-enabled PC into a cellphone look-alike with an interface that looks like it was ripped off from 1996 AOL. Gosh, who wouda thunk consumers wouldn't jump at a deal like that!

    And does Microsoft really expect 100 million CAD/CAM designers, accountants, and other industrial content makers and knowledge workers to hold their arms up all day inaccurately poking smudges on their 42" vertical monitors with their fat fingers, working at 1/100th the speed as before Windows 8 with 1000 times the physical effort?

    Also, you need to read this.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    No, the problem is that Windows 8 is a solution in search for a problem. have any of you tought before W8 "dang, I wish I could stretch my arms out to poke the screen!" ? The tablet and smartphone form factors are entirely different in handling to how you use a PC or laptop most of the time.

    Ignoring the loaded question, yes, I have wanted to "reach out and poke the screen". I know I'm not alone in this, either, as it's a common complaint that after using a touch screen device it's common to find yourself "poking" non-touch screens out of habit. More to the point, a device like the Surface is something I've been wishing existed for the last ten years, and such a device couldn't exist without Windows 8 (or a similar radical change from the old UX). So I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. Whether or not Windows 8 UX is good, it was not a solution in search of a problem.

    Seriously, you moaners need to give it up. We get it. You don't like it. Telling us again won't make us (or Microsoft) "get it" any better than we already have.

    Put another way: millions of people complaining will get Microsoft's attention, but one person complaining a million times won't. While the reality is somewhere in between those two statements, it doesn't change the fact that YOU screaming some more does nothing but make you look like a moron.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , wkempf wrote

    *snip*

    Ignoring the loaded question, yes, I have wanted to "reach out and poke the screen". I know I'm not alone in this, either, as it's a common complaint that after using a touch screen device it's common to find yourself "poking" non-touch screens out of habit.

    Instead of locating my mouse cursor and trying to align it with precision over a scrollbar control that is far away from the content I am looking at, I've always just wanted to flick the page up or down.

    Seriously, you moaners need to give it up. We get it. You don't like it. Telling us again won't make us (or Microsoft) "get it" any better than we already have.

    I think they're just lonely. They want other people to "join them" in their opinions/likes/dislikes so they won't feel alone anymore.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    @wkempf: I don't know about that. While I agree starting endless threads about how much Windows 8 sucks probably doesn't help, telling people to stop complaining about Windows 8 isn't the right approach either. If everyone followed that advice then MS would start thinking Windows 8 was actually a good idea.

    My personal reason for complaining is that to me Windows 8 is a clear step backwards, and it does affect me since I spend a lot of time doing real work in Windows. I've given it quite a bit of time now and it annoys me more and more each day. MS is going out of their way to destroy 20 years of UI refinement, I think complaining about it is to be expected. And saying "we get it" misses the point completely.

    If it annoys you guys so much, why do you take the time to consciously click, read and comment on threads that are clearly marked with an accurate title? It's an honest question.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , MasterPie wrote

    Instead of locating my mouse cursor and trying to align it with precision over a scrollbar control that is far away from the content I am looking at, I've always just wanted to flick the page up or down.

    I've talked about this before. I owned a touch screen laptop long before Win8 came around. I constantly find myself dismissing dialogs with the touch screen rather than using the keyboard, trackpad or even the mouse (I use a mouse with my laptop frequently). It's easier, more intuitive and with the exception of using the keyboard, faster. I also scroll fairly frequently using the touch screen as well. On the desktop things will be *slightly* different, as the monitor is a bit further away. However, I *have* wanted to purchase a touch screen monitor because I love the touch screen on my laptop so much.

    , MasterPie wrote

    I think they're just lonely. They want other people to "join them" in their opinions/likes/dislikes so they won't feel alone anymore.

    That's pretty much what I said is stupid here. No one is going to "join them" because they whine and moan so much. If anything, this behavior will have the opposite result.

  • User profile image
    Hometoy

    have any of you tought before W8 "dang, I wish I could stretch my arms out to poke the screen!" ?

    Actually, long before Windows 8 came out  I had those thoughts.  It feels more natural.

    It is all just getting tiring because practically the same things have been (and are being said) over and over again with the changes to the Gnome desktop and Unity on Linux.

    SSDD (same sh.., different device)

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , BitFlipper wrote

    If it annoys you guys so much, why do you take the time to consciously click, read and comment on threads that are clearly marked with an accurate title? It's an honest question.

    The title indicated there was something worth reading about (the "re-launch"), even though it was obvious that most of this was going to be another rant from our favorite troll. Why I bothered to comment was because the constantly complaining is simply stupid and annoying. I will, however, admit that there's a bit of irony there, as I'm exhibiting some of what I'm pointing out is so stupid. However, there is a slight difference: there is NOTHING new initiating his (and your) further complaints, while YET ANOTHER THREAD is something new to complain about. Even just having to filter out these threads when reading the RSS feed is a waste of my time, and well worth trying to get you guys to go away.

    I agree, you had a right to complain. I do NOT agree that continuing to do so accomplishes anything worthwhile.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , wkempf wrote

    *snip*

    Ignoring the loaded question, yes, I have wanted to "reach out and poke the screen". I know I'm not alone in this, either, as it's a common complaint that after using a touch screen device it's common to find yourself "poking" non-touch screens out of habit.

    ....

    On the desktop things will be *slightly* different, as the monitor is a bit further away. However, I *have* wanted to purchase a touch screen monitor because I love the touch screen on my laptop so much.

    Now that's what I call a minority position. But even if you have the occasional desire to press on "OK" with your fingers, this gets old very fast. Redesigning the whole UI of a productivity OS around such edge-cases is crazy.

    It's like designing the OS primarily around voice recognition, because I have sometimes the desire to scream at it!

    , wkempf wrote

    More to the point, a device like the Surface is something I've been wishing existed for the last ten years, and such a device couldn't exist without Windows 8

    Really?

    The Surface ios neither full laptop replacement (doesn't function well on the lap) nor a full tablet replacement. The touch-cover experience is also far from ideal. Of course, everyone is different, but I find it really hard to believe that you dreamt about the Surface for ten years.

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