Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft still in denial phase over W8.. possible "relaunch" in February

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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Do you think they will indeed "relaunch" it in February?

    No.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    Now that's what I call a minority position.

    Evidence that it's a minority position?

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Really?

    The Surface neither full laptop replacement (doesn't function well on the lap) nor a full tablet replacement. The touch-cover experience is also far from ideal. Of course, everyone is different, but I find it really hard to believe that you dreamt about the Surface for ten years.

    Oh, so you're calling me a liar, and projecting you're opinions as the only opinions that are valid? Never mind, I forgot you're not just a whiner but a troll. I'll stop feeding you.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , wkempf wrote

    *snip*

    Evidence that it's a minority position?

    Opposition to Windows 8? The sales of it? Touchscreen sales on laptops/desktops?

    Gorilla-arm problem?:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-touch-screens-will-not-take-over

     

    Oh, so you're calling me a liar, and projecting you're opinions as the only opinions that are valid?

    I can very well believe you, that you thought it would be a neat to have a more flexible/powerful tablet PC. But that you wished for a device full of compromises like the Surface?

    As I said before in this forum: They should have completely separated both worlds. Both uncripppled UIs on the same device, switchable, would work (connect your tablet to a keyboard, mouse and display, switch to the uncrippled desktop -> you have a productivity device) but this FrankenOS abomination they did instead suits just about NOBODOY. Metro gets in your way on the Desktop and the Desktop gets in your way on metro (many settings are only reachable through the desktop CP etc.). It's a mess, pure and simple.

    I believe you, that you thought about all-in-one devices. But I don't buy it that you had seriously a FrankenOS experience like this in mind all the time as your dream-device. Sorry.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , BitFlipper wrote

    @wkempf: I don't know about that. While I agree starting endless threads about how much Windows 8 sucks probably doesn't help, telling people to stop complaining about Windows 8 isn't the right approach either. If everyone followed that advice then MS would start thinking Windows 8 was actually a good idea.

    My personal reason for complaining is that to me Windows 8 is a clear step backwards, and it does affect me since I spend a lot of time doing real work in Windows. I've given it quite a bit of time now and it annoys me more and more each day. MS is going out of their way to destroy 20 years of UI refinement, I think complaining about it is to be expected. And saying "we get it" misses the point completely.

    Completely right.

    Quote from another W8 forum:

    -------------

    What people don't get about writing complaints is that issues don't get fixed otherwise. Nothing was ever resolved with a "wait and see" attitude. Nothing. Not ever. If people aren't complaining and/or voting with their dollars by purchasing competing products then nothing gets fixed.

    If Windows 8 were to disappear, Microsoft would (rightly) conclude that the issues weren't such a big deal after all. The people with the most vested interest will complain the loudest. That's why it's the same people over and over again. The rest of the world will complain once, return the product, and buy something from Apple or Samsung instead.

    Ironically, it's the people who don't really give a *, the ones who say "Enough with the complaining!" that are most detrimental to the industry. It's really hard to believe these people really think this is all about Apple's share price dropping. It should be patently obvious that anyone who posts deep technical criticisms has a high level of vested interest.

    If/when the complaining dies, it's either because Microsoft fixed the problems or that people have given up and are looking for exit plans

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    @wastingtimewithforums: There's no PROOF that sales are low, so you've got a strawman argument there.

    EVERY device is full of compromises. YOU don't like the compromises they've made. I don't agree with you. Simple as that. THAT is why these constant threads are stupid (wish I could use the words I want to here). If you had something new to point out that you don't like, that would be one thing. But you point out the SAME things every time. Some of us don't agree with your opinion. Doesn't make you wrong, but by the same coin, neither are we. What matters is what the majority thinks. If you and every other person that's stuck in a cycle would shut up, I bet there'd be crickets. No one new is complaining. So there are no new data points to draw on.

    Look, if you don't like it, don't use it. If you're correct that it's a pile of dung and everyone follows that advice, things will correct themselves one way or another. What you are doing though isn't helpful. And it's becoming more than just annoying, but actually harmful to this forum. I understand why they are reluctant to, but it's fast coming time for you and the others to be banned from here, IMHO.

  • User profile image
    Hometoy

    Do Microsoft and/or Windows developers (employed by Microsoft) actually frequent these forums?  Most Linux forums I follow, when people make comments or suggestions they are told that developers don't usually read posts/threads there.

    I don't know what, if any, official channels Microsoft employs for communicating issues such as bug reports.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , Hometoy wrote

    Do Microsoft and/or Windows developers (employed by Microsoft) actually frequent these forums?  Most Linux forums I follow, when people make comments or suggestions they are told that developers don't usually read posts/threads there.

    I don't know what, if any, official channels Microsoft employs for communicating issues such as bug reports.

    Crashes: Windows Error Reporting (automatic)

    Ux / Usage: Windows Feedback Program (automatic)

    Bugs: connect.microsoft.com

    Microsoft developers usually don't venture into the coffeehouse - and that's partly because idiots like WTWF and earlier incarnations of the same (SirHomer, all the way back to Beer28) have made them get pissed off and leave.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    WTWF and earlier incarnations of the same (SirHomer, all the way back to Beer28)

    Same as in the same category, or did you mean same person? If you mean latter; I was never related to those.

    have made them get pissed off and leave.

    What what made them "pissed and leave" on the B8 blog backback then? Most of the good and hard hitting questions got censored there. That was a new one for MS.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , BitFlipper wrote

    telling people to stop complaining about Windows 8 isn't the right approach either.

    ... And saying "we get it" misses the point completely.

    It's not telling people to stop complaining...it's telling them to stop shoving their complaints down our throats to put us in a defensive position for no good reason other than to annoy us. We're not the ones who made the decisions that the haters seem to hate. Microsoft is the responsible entity...go complain to them.

    Now, if the reason people keep prattling on and on about their hatred for these things is to convert people to "their side" in order to incite some mass online protest against Microsoft's actions in Windows 8 territory...it's not going to work. People here aren't stupid so as to mindlessly change their opinion, especially to support the efforts of those who have relegated themselves to copying and pasting, from random threads, anonymous comments that reflect their world view.

     

    "We get it" doesn't mean to stop finding fault - it means to stop slinging the same thoughts our way and to instead promote proper discourse around reasonable solutions.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @wastingtimewithforums: I read through some of the "questions" posted to B8. They weren't questions. There were no usage scenarios, reasonable discussions of issues, or constructive criticism. 99.99% of it was "waaa waaa, it's different and I don't want it". How can they be expected to wade through that crap?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , MasterPie wrote

    *snip*

    to support the efforts of those who have relegated themselves to copying and pasting, from random threads, anonymous comments that reflect their world view.

    Thin nerves, huh? My copy and paste activities are pretty negligible. One of the main complaints just a few weeks ago was that my posts (original content) are way too long.

    I wonder why you guys have such a fragile mood over anything W8 related. I mean it's not like me or the other critics are spamming this forum without end with fishy titles to lure you to click on them. There are plenty of other posts to chose from.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , kettch wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums: I read through some of the "questions" posted to B8. They weren't questions. There were no usage scenarios, reasonable discussions of issues, or constructive criticism. 99.99% of it was "waaa waaa, it's different and I don't want it".

    And yet, such censorship actions didn't occur before to such extend.

    If W8 provoked these reactions, you better ask why. 

    " waaa waaa, it's different and I don't want it".

    So, where's the big success story of W8? Almost all sales news are gloomy, and so is the general perception of the OS as a whole. Was there ANY OEM that spoke positive about W8 so far? 

    Multiple big OEMs have cancelled/halted their RT devices instead.

    If there are lots of "waa waa I don't want it" voices, maybe there is some truth to it. W8 defenders are like the "Year Of The Linux Desktop" people of the past - "greatest OS ever! It's only that the users are far too dumb and stuck!"

    And if the only reason (...) W8 isn't selling is because of the PC decline: Wasn't W8 supposed to tackle this? Windows 8's commercial performance on tablets is even worse than on PCs apparently. It's not like they are cancelling RT devices because OEMs are about damaging MS first, profits second.

    Anyway guys, since you dislike it so much, I will slowdown the W8 output.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    I wonder why you guys have such a fragile mood over anything W8 related. I mean it's not like me or the other critics are spamming this forum without end. 

    Seriously? That's exactly what you're doing.

    Look at my recent posting profile:

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/wastingtimewithforums

    Not exactly mass-output.

    Like how it's easy to find comments on the interweb that support your perspective, it's easy to carve out a posting timeframe to prove you're not a troll/spammer. Stretch that window to early mid 2012 (around page 26 of your discussions) and then you start to see Win8 related rants on almost every page. And this is at the post level - the spamming would be even clearer at the thread level if we could make that distinction.

     

    I have to ask...who exactly are you trying to help with your endless rants?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , MasterPie wrote

    Stretch that window to early mid 2012..

    Well, I have obviously reduced the output by now. I was also far from alone in mid 2012, this place was brimming with W8 discussions.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    The cheapy pre-Feb upgrade is partially to blame because my friend bought Win8 for his old HP touch all-in-one. in related news, iMac sales has been down in large percentage. With same amount of negativity, scream, "iMac is doomed"....

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    Well, I have obviously reduced the output by now. I was also far from alone in mid 2012, this place was brimming with W8 discussions.

    Most other people stopped demanding that Windows8 change their core set of features within a few weeks of Windows8 being launched and it being clear that those features were either there in RTM or weren't and weren't going to be magicced into RTM by complaining about it on C9.

    You on the other hand don't seem to have picked up on the fact that Windows8 has already shipped. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But anything you write here won't change RTM. That boat has sailed.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    You on the other hand don't seem to have picked up on the fact that Windows8 has already shipped. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But anything you write here won't change RTM. That boat has sailed.

    Yep - unfortunately that's the only 'feedback' MS are going to pay attention to. While they may be able to fudge the figures in the short term (shipments vs purchases vs usage) eventually the reality of W8's success or failure is something that will reflect in the revenue, and (if bad) must be explained to the shareholders. If it's a success, expect to see more of the same. If it's bad, expect to see change.

    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q2/default.aspx

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    And it appears that Win8 is pulling its weight. So much for the doom and gloom...

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