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Microsoft still in denial phase over W8.. possible "relaunch" in February

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  • User profile image
    cheong

    @evildictaitor:Whatever. All I wanted to say is all these things makes WinRT devices desirable for running POS clients, so it's pity that Microsoft don't make serial/parallel port access easier on WinRT.

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    evildictait​or

    , cheong wrote

    @evildictaitor:Whatever. All I wanted to say is all these things makes WinRT devices desirable for running POS clients, so it's pity that Microsoft don't make serial/parallel port access easier on WinRT.

    It's easy to do in Windows RT. You just need compatible drivers.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    @Sven Groot: I used a separate piece of software (I can't remember the name) that held your references and did something like a mail-merge to add (and format) your citation list at the end; so you hat to tag your citations in text with the ID of the citation in the software package.  In the end it wasn't that bad.

    I did think about writing something myself and marketing it, but didn't have the time in the end.

    @evildictaitor: I only had two simple formulas in the entire thesis, so the old formula editor was fine .

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    In the end it wasn't that bad.

    We should all consider ourselves lucky. I have a friend in London who did a Ph.D. in anatomy back in the 70s, and she had to write her dissertation on a typewriter, and the (many) images she used had to be glued to the pages by hand.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    @Sven Groot: We spent two days cutting and gluing photos of DNA gels into my wife's thesis (all four copies) because we couldn't get access to the rare and mysterious device known as a scanner.  We also had to use transfers to add the titles to the photos (to make sure they lined up after gluing the photos in) which was even worse.

    Even now when we open her thesis, gel photos still drop out at random.

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    It's easy to do in Windows RT. You just need compatible drivers.

    That's the problem.  Microsoft explicitly does not provide support for serial port access in WinRT.  (I'm not making this up... it's a well known issue, search the Internet if you don't believe me.)

    The reason these vendors supplied serial port access in the first place is because all desktop applications can access the serial port.  This reduced the need to use proprietary drivers.  Not true anymore.

    I guess Microsoft thought hardware vendors would go back and write new driver code for devices they already sold.  The reality is that support for older devices is limited to what came with the device.  Need a new driver, throw $200 or whatever at a new device (even though your old one works perfectly and will work perfectly for years, and you don't need the new features in the new hardware).

    Otherwise, Microsoft assumed that application developers would write the hardware drivers.  Frankly, this is absurd, particularly for hardware supplied by third-party vendors.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    That's the problem.  Microsoft explicitly does not provide support for serial port access in WinRT.  (I'm not making this up... it's a well known issue, search the Internet if you don't believe me.)

    The reason these vendors supplied serial port access in the first place is because all desktop applications can access the serial port.  This reduced the need to use proprietary drivers.  Not true anymore.

    I guess Microsoft thought hardware vendors would go back and write new driver code for devices they already sold.  The reality is that support for older devices is limited to what came with the device.  Need a new driver, throw $200 or whatever at a new device (even though your old one works perfectly and will work perfectly for years, and you don't need the new features in the new hardware).

    Otherwise, Microsoft assumed that application developers would write the hardware drivers.  Frankly, this is absurd, particularly for hardware supplied by third-party vendors.

    Sadly this isn't a new problem for Windows8. Every version of Windows has had problems when old devices don't have compatible device drivers.

    Microsoft might be big, but compared with the hardware market, it's tiny. Unfortunately if hardware manufacturers aren't able to keep up and provide drivers for new versions of Windows that are compatible with the new application/driver models that Microsoft release, there's not a whole lot application developers can do about it.

    Your best bet is to phone up the hardware company and ask if/when they intend to release WindowsRT compatible drivers for their hardware.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/30/windows-8-pays-off-big-time-in-lenovos-latest-quarter/#Jq50Tu5BXWIm6b0J.02

    Lenovo report[ed] a gross profit of $205 million on $9.4 billion in revenue. Not bad for a company that conventional wisdom says should be floundering.

    Lenovo's sparkling results stand in contrast to the resentment-soaked PC shipment numbers that Acer reported this week. While Windows 8 is working out pretty well for Lenovo, Acer can't say the same. And it's pretty bitter about it.

    "The whole market didn't come back to growth after the Windows 8 launch. That's a simple way to judge if it is successful or not," Acer president Jim Wong told Bloomberg yesterday.

    So how do you explain Lenovo's success? Pretty simply, really: Its devices don't stink.

     

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Sadly this isn't a new problem for Windows8. Every version of Windows has had problems when old devices don't have compatible device drivers.

    I don't think this is true of serial port access.  AFAIK, you could talk to a serial port in every version of DOS and Windows with no problem up until Windows 8.  Now suddenly, with Modern apps, it doesn't work at all.

    Microsoft should have created an app capability for serial port access.  Microsoft allows my app to become a network server, to impersonate me using my network credentials, and to access random removable storage.  I would say all of those could be more insecure than accessing a serial port, which hooks up to hardware I have physical access to.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @evildictaitor:It's not like we have more than 5 types of UART chips to support. Microsoft can handle this part pretty easily if she wants. And it's generic driver so usual argument about "Every version of Windows has had problems when old devices don't have compatible device drivers" does not apply.

    I think Microsoft may want to drop serial port access to favour migration to newer USB standard, while neglecting many device in the world still needs it.

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    evildictait​or

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    I don't think this is true of serial port access.  AFAIK, you could talk to a serial port in every version of DOS and Windows with no problem up until Windows 8.  Now suddenly, with Modern apps, it doesn't work at all.

    Microsoft should have created an app capability for serial port access.  Microsoft allows my app to become a network server, to impersonate me using my network credentials, and to access random removable storage.  I would say all of those could be more insecure than accessing a serial port, which hooks up to hardware I have physical access to.

    Hang on; since serial ports are handled by the Microsoft class driver, rather than by individual device drivers, are you sure you can't just ask for permission to talk to the class driver and open it as a character device for in/out access? Maybe we're overthinking this and the capability is already in there via the serial driver's class interface. Screw talking to the device driver, you only need to talk to the serial class driver.

  • User profile image
    davewill

    , cheong wrote

    *snip*

    I think Microsoft may want to drop serial port access to favour migration to newer USB standard, while neglecting many device in the world still needs it.

    That is a given.  We saw the same thing with .NET.  It didn't initially have RS232 support without using P/Invoke.

  • User profile image
    rodneyMc

    , BitFlipper wrote

    Metro can co-exists alongside a full functional desktop that should be a refinement/evolution of what we had in Windows 7, not some Frankenstein monster that most desktop users seem to hate.

    Yes. Should of been presented as a separate tablet/phone touchscreen OS and not a replacement or upgrade. And yes we all know we are still kicking the dead horse but like to hear from the inside experts here since allot of you guys work for MS and like to hear what you have to say, unless your under gag orders to not provide insight into the BLUE release or Re-Launch. 

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    There is no relaunch.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , rodneyMc wrote

    *snip*

    provide insight into the BLUE release or Re-Launch. 

    I don't think change is due in either. At the risk of laboring a point I made earlier, MS will only change direction if sales figures dictate the need, and at the moment they seem to be happy with those.

    $70 student upgrades, starting Feb-1... that will continue to blur the underlying sales strength or weakness of the product, but eventually it will either prove to be a true sales success, fully justifying MS's choices, or a sales flop, demanding product changes. I believe that the jury is still out on this one.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Hang on; since serial ports are handled by the Microsoft class driver, rather than by individual device drivers, are you sure you can't just ask for permission to talk to the class driver and open it as a character device for in/out access?

    Not that I can tell.  Now, I am not an expert on the subject by any means, but I have given it the ol' college try and searched extensively with no luck.  Particularly, the following MSDN article suggests that serial drivers are not supported:  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh464945.aspx.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    @bondsbw: I asked the question in here. There's a post by Larry Larson in there that might be useful, otherwise I suggest we wait for a "proper" Microsoft response before calling it quits and deciding it can't be done.

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/The-Defrag-Show/Defrag-High-CPU-Usage-Audio-Interrupt-Sharing-Printers-and-Files

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @davewill:Yes. I remember the old days in .NET v1.1 that we still need the old MSCOMM32 library from VB6 to do serial port tasks.

    Will try our luck and see if MS will add serial port access back when we complain enough.

    Actually I think USB is not a full replacement for serial port access even if someone say so, lots of companies have policy to cut the wires for onboard USB before they're moved to datacentre because it can be anything and can launch programs. (This argument is not applicable to most portable device of course).

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