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Microsoft still in denial

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  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    To me Windows 8 just no longer feels "professional". It feels dumbed down, everything seems like it takes more time to do and it just isn't intuitive. Easy and obvious aren't the same things.

    Here is an example. Now I'm sure there is an easy way to make it work like I want it to, it just isn't obvious:

    So one thing I do is RDP to work a few days a week. In Windows 7 the RDP app was listed in the start menu due to it being used often. It also had a fly-out menu showing the MRU connections. So it was easy to connect to work.

    In W8, I have to go to the Metro start screen to start RDP. However the link there doesn't show MRU connections (what am I missing?). So I have to click on the main RDP link and then click the Show Options button to expand it down, then click on Open and then scroll all the way down to select the settings I want.

    Now I have a lot of applications. Because of that I don't want to pin RDP to the task bar. Yes if pinned, I can click + drag up and I can get the MRU list. However I don't want to pin it.

    So my next thought was to create a specific link to the RDP settings file in the Metro start screen. However it isn't clear to me how to do that. I tried right-clicking on the file but creating a shortcut simply placed it in the same folder. How do I get it to the Metro start screen? I even tried dragging the link to the bottom-left corner hoping the Metro start screen will open so I can drop it there. No luck.

    Yes maybe I'm just being stooped because I've only used W8 for 6 days now, but you'd think these things would be more intuitive.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , spivonious wrote

    *snip*

    I think they made the right tradeoffs in order to save their consumer PC market.

    Um, fix your broken record. Pretty much every "unsuspecting customer" test showed that Win8 bedazzled them.

    Here's how it plays usually out:

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-sales-well-below-projections-plenty-blame-go-around#comments

    ------------

    I heard from first couple of people who bought cheap (as majority of people do) Widows 8 laptops and boy the hate them! They can't find Start menu which for them means there are no apps in desktop mode. They go to App Store where they still can't find their favourite programs, or if they find and install they don't work way they expect (i.e. *Skype). They go to Internet (using Metro IE version) and it doesn't play videos on their favourite websites (flash). They open a file from desktop and it opens in full screen Metro app with no obvious way to close it...

    Obviously there are easy ways around all these issues, but normal people don't want (nor they should) to learn these things. One of them asked why her iPad is so easy and why Windows is getting more and more "difficult and confusing". And when I told that there now are Windows tablets which looks just like her new Windows machine she just laughed and said "never in my life" or something along these lines...

    ------------

    *"Skype for Windows 8: A debacle"

    Windows 8 actually seems to repel the average consumer. For mega-obvious usuability issues which have been pointed out a million times (quite literally) in the past twelve months.

    Sales data begins to proof it.

    It has also been said countless of times that brute-forcing Metro would actually annoy people so much, that it would encourage them staying away from other Windows devices (logically). Just like it happened in this case.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    All I can judge by is personal experiences. My wife loves Windows RT. It plays all of the Flash videos in the sites she visits, she is addicted to that Jet Pack game, and the battery easily lasts all day. She has no idea what ARM is. She understands the loss of backwards compatibilty, but it doesn't bother her. She grokked the charms right away and appreciates that she can always find settings and search in the same place.

    I have had no productivity hits using it on my desktop or my wife's old laptop. I'm not usually in the Start Screen for too long on those, but it's great for checking emails or surfing the web. When I'm ready for real "work", I drop to the desktop and use the same apps I used on Windows 7. The only thing I miss is Share charm integration with desktop apps, but I understand why that would be difficult.

     

  • User profile image
    Jim Young

    , BitFlipper wrote

    So one thing I do is RDP to work a few days a week. In Windows 7 the RDP app was listed in the start menu due to it being used often. It also had a fly-out menu showing the MRU connections. So it was easy to connect to work.

    I been running 8 since August and for me RDP is just as easy as it was in 7. I have a shortcut on my desktop and I use the MRU in the application to select my connection. In fact since I did a in-place upgrade from 7 I had no changes to make at all!

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    @Jim Young: I also did an in-place upgrade. However things that used to be easy to get to are now no longer easy to get to. Well unless I put shortcuts all over my desktop as you suggest. Things just got more cluttered...

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    I think Paul Thurrott said it best (for those that did not read the actual article linked in the OP's post)...

    It's a floor wax. No, it's a dessert topping. Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing, Frankenstein's monster mix of old and new that hides a great desktop upgrade under a crazy Metro front-end. It's touch-first, as Microsoft says, but really it's touch whether you want it or not (or have it or not), and the firm's inability to give its own customers the choice to pick which UI they want is what really makes Windows 8 confounding to users.

    It's the "you get a touch-first UI whether you have a touch-screen or not" part that annoys me. This is a desktop - I don't have a touch screen and I don't want to deal with a touch-first UI and all the inefficiencies it brings for me.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    I blame legalized marijuana.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , Bass wrote

    I blame legalized marijuana.

    For once I agree with you.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , Bass wrote

    I blame legalized marijuana.

    Hey it's not December 6th yet. 420 is going to be off-the-hook this year...

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    Bass

    , BitFlipper wrote

    *snip*

    For once I agree with you.

    Well in that case, just kidding. It obviously wasn't legalized marijuana.

     

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Win8 and touch works well for tablets - and I don't believe that anyone is arguing with that.

    Where the disagreement seems to be focused is in whether or not there were compromises made for people using traditional desktop/laptop type of equipment and applications - i.e. the majority of business users.

    For me, with a desktop and dual 24" screens, Win8 just doesn't work as well as Win7.

    I am a long-time MS supporter, and I really tried to like it, but I ended up going back to Win7, for a whole host of issues, both major and trivial. After all, nobody is forcing me to use it, so why should I feel a need to compromise?

    It's purely a personal issue, but as someone who has a disability that makes all physical movement very taxing, I notice even minor changes in UI efficiency. For me, a keyboard requires significantly more effort than a mouse, and touching a screen requires significantly more effort than a keyboard. All things considered, I found that Win8 required more effort to achieve the same result than did Win7.

    I realise that most people would not even notice such issues, and that many people actually even prefer the new UI for a desktop/laptop environment, but nevertheless, I feel that these UI changes could have been made optional for desktop installations (with MS even imposing their preferred defaults) allowing users to choose not to use it where it is not suitable or desirable.

    Unilateral, non-negotiable and "uncompromising" changes to the UI will always cause problems for some, and with such a large installation base, even a small %age is still a very large number of people. I struggle to see why there was a need to create such unnecessary agro.

    For me, for a tablet? no argument, but for a desktop? no thanks.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , Bass wrote

    *snip*

    Well in that case, just kidding. It obviously wasn't legalized marijuana. 

    Yes obviously. So I still agree with you.

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss
  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    personally I feel like back in the Vista days where I have multiple apps for doing the same thing, or even worse, the amount of duplicated apps are now tripled or way more compare to Vista. You tell me I have the choice, yes I do, so did Vista days, and not so bad compare to now.

    it is just confusing. When they did Win7, they finally consolidated duplicated apps and vendors finally able to focus on win live essentials instead of raising confusions.

    and now, it is confusing again. Not only duplicated 1st party apps, we get duplicated 3rd party app.

     

    BTW, WinPh8 auto-correction sux compare to Win,Ph7.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    dentaku

    They simply need to ask users one question.
    Are you using a touchscreen OR are you using a mouse?
    If you have a mouse, present them with a Win7-like interface without any of the touch stuff that involves using the corners of the screen or popping in and out of a fullscreen start menu.

    Watching people do coding demos at BUILD, you never saw them use any of that stuff because they figured out all the keyboard shortcuts. Once in a while you would see the fullscreen start menu pop up for about a half a second and it was quite jarring.

    I just hope Microsoft doesn't ruin a perfectly good modern OS because of misguided business reasons and plain old stubbornness. I'm far more interested in WP8 than Win8 because on a phone, all of this stuff is great.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    I just hope Microsoft doesn't ruin a perfectly good modern OS because of misguided business reasons and plain old stubbornness. I'm far more interested in WP8 than Win8 because on a phone, all of this stuff is great.

    It's also great on  tablet, but then it's nice to have Office available as well, so I guess we can't have it both ways (or can we?)

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , spivonious wrote

    *snip*

    My wife loves Windows RT. .. She understands the loss of backwards compatibilty, but it doesn't bother her. 

    And why does she understand it? Probably because you explained it to her. "Windows RT" is the dumbest product name in history of industrialized products. Even something like "Microsoft Tiles" would be far better.

    What does RT mean? I guess it has something to do with WinRT, but who the hell knows that outside of Visual Studio addicts? For 99.9% of the population it is a completely meaningless moniker. Windows XP and Windows me also had these two-character names instead of a number and they were able to run all existing programs. 

    That has also been pointed out a million times in the last months, Sinofsky even said that they were going to make it absolutely clear that no one would confuse Win8 and RT.. and what's the result? Windows RT looks exactly like Windows 8, it even has a desktop.. but it can't run existing applications, and the only hint for that is "RT", which doesn't ring any bells for the customer. You could as well call it Windows Dumbo.

    I bet that there were more than enough RT device buyers who were absolutely befuddled why they weren't able to run their existing Windows programs and gave the devices back.

    Customer: "Why can't I run my existing applications?"

    Salesperson :"You can't run these on Windows RT. Only the store apps"

    C: "So why is it called Windows? And why is there a desktop then, that looks like Windows 7?"

    S: "To run Office"

    C: "But isn't Office a normal Windows application as well? I have it on my PC, and it looks exactly like the one on this device. If Office works on this, why can't I use my other programs as well?"

    S: "You see, this thing has a so-called ARM processor, and Microsoft has decided that [...]"

    C: "Ah, * this!"

    http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/windows-rt-and-8-sales-signs-point-major-flop-206847

    "rumors of astronomical [Surface RT] return rates" - Uh, let me guess why.

    The stupid approach taken with Windows RT is also bad on a whole other level. It shows that Microsoft doesn't seem to value its own ecosystem, which it has been building up for the whole existence of Windows. Microsoft opinion about the millions of existing Win32 and .NET applications, and the developers who made them, is not exactly flattering if they thought that no one would notice their absence.

    The Windows 8 decisions so far reek "debacle", from start to finish. And Microsoft can't say that they haven't been warned. How were they able to stubbornly screw up so much on all fronts, despite the tons of feedback and complaints, which predicted all these problems to the letter, is beyond me.

  • User profile image
    C9Matt

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

     

    C: "But isn't Office a normal Windows application as well? I have it on my PC, and it looks exactly like the one on this device. If Office works on this, why can't I use my other programs as well?"

    S: "You see, this thing has a so-called ARM processor, and Microsoft has decided that [...]"

    Wrong. Windows RT is perfectly capable of running desktop programs ARM or not, just so long as you specified ARM as the target output of Visual Studio; the code is all there so that you could hapilly run WoW or Firefox or Open Office or Visual Studio - and indeed I've actually written desktop apps for pre-release Windows RT and they "just work" out of Visual Studio - whether you LoadLibrary or CreateFile or DeviceIOControl or not.

    The reason you can't run those on Windows RT isn't because Windows RT can't, it's because Microsoft won't let you.

    That's the bit that pi*sses me off. Microsoft is playing stupid politics with the Windows RT devices; there's no technical reason why it has to suck. It just sucks because someone at Microsoft decided it should.

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