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Microsoft still in denial

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  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    Crippled? Really? How?

    • OneNote could record video & audio (not with OfficeRT)
    • OneNote supports handwriting recognition (not like Officex86; OfficeRT doesn't support handwriting directly on the page. You have to write via the ink input method and use your finger or capacitive stylus. Oh and yes it sucks.)
    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • codedj

    It may be that they just ran out of time and hence had to leave out full desktop support for RT. I think that support will come but first they need to fix the performance issues on RT. It looks like a lot of third-party and MS developed apps have frame drops and appear choppy. Most of these apps are HTML/JS written apps so may be it's limited to that.

    On the Start screen if you scroll through the tiles very slowly (I am doing this deliberately) you will notice that the tiles jump by 3-5 pixels instead of a smooth scroll. Start Pinball FX 2 and then switch to the start screen. The frame rates are really bad. This is one thing that Apple does well. They don't release products like that. I am sure the devs at MS already know of these issues and hopefully will release a fix soon.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    The frame rates are really bad. This is one thing that Apple does well. They don't release products like that. I am sure the devs at MS already know of these issues and hopefully will release a fix soon.

    And that's one thing I find so baffling about Microsoft. They know this and yet still release unfinished, also-ran products time and time again. I want them to be successful but they keep drinking their own Kool-Aid and ignoring the obvious issues with their software and devices.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • wastingtime​withforums

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    "Crippled? Really? How?"

    • OneNote could record video & audio (not with OfficeRT)
    • OneNote supports handwriting recognition (not like Officex86; OfficeRT doesn't support handwriting directly on the page. You have to write via the ink input method and use your finger or capacitive stylus. Oh and yes it sucks.)

    This can be summed up far easier: It's a Notro app, so of COURSE it's crippled! Or even more simpler: It's Windows 8!

    The user in this thread thought that the all new start orb behavior is a bug:

    Will Microsoft be fixing the issue with start button, where if one is using a mouse and moves to the bottom left side of screen to make the Start button appear

    Hillarious.

    Nothing against the OP, but that post is further proof what a trainwreck Win8 is.

    Reading the amazon.com comments on Windows 8 is equally good fun:

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R87XKJNHJLKTX/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B008H3SW4I&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag

    Apple is missing a golden opportunity if they do not bring back the PC guy and Mac guy commercials. I have used every version of Windows since Windows 2 and this is the worst. Most user unfriendly system I have ever used. I needed a new computer and bought computer with windows 8 because I had not choice. When you have to go out on the internet to find out how to shutdown your computer, that is a problem. I have to use Safari browser to download software. Common programs such as Adobe acrobat reader would not download and install using internet explorer. When I tried to download IE 9 my computer states it is installed, but I have not a clue as to how to search for it, since I cannot find a search box as in other versions of Windows. This may force me to buy a MAC. If you are using Windows 7 or Windows Vista or XP. DO NOT UPGRADE!!!

    After going through some of these helpless pleas of Windows 8 victims I invented a game - "Designofail". It involves reconstructing Sinofksy's genius design decisions to find out which of them drove the user to tears.

    In this case, the user tried to wrestle the beast known as Metro IE, but the beast withstood taming, almost like the beasts in the Bible. Metro IE has problems running the installers of software like Adobe Reader, which like only 99% of the computer using populace is using. Since Sinosky's motto was "no compromise", any double digit percentage number, no matter how high, was not enough to change course.

    The user probably used the search function to find software in previous versions, and now that this function is gone, his/her navigation is utterly broken. Oh, I know what you want to say: "But WastingTimeWithForums! Windows 8 HAS a search function, I used it myself searching for the power off button!"

    Ya, sure, and there's a chance that below your feet right now is a huge oil field.. if you only knew that! The Metro start screen offers absolutely no indication that it is searchable. It's full of little news items and ad-like graphics. It resembles something like cnn.com, only that CNN HAS a search box! Would you "just start typing" at cnn.com, if the site had no visible search box?

    Let's move to Paul Thurrot:

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-sales-well-below-projections-plenty-blame-go-around#comments

    ----

    I heard from first couple of people who bought cheap (as majority of people do) Widows 8 laptops and boy the hate them! They can't find Start menu which for them means there are no apps in desktop mode. They go to App Store where they still can't find their favourite programs, or if they find and install they don't work way they expect (i.e. Skype). They go to Internet (using Metro IE version) and it doesn't play videos on their favourite websites (flash). They open a file from desktop and it opens in full screen Metro app with no obvious way to close it...

    ----

    Let's go designofail on this one.. Oh, I can already hear you! "They can't find Start Menu"? But WastingTimeWithForums,  there IS a Start Screen! I use it to pin my favourite porn sites onto it!" Yea, but Grandmaster S. has forgotten to add an MRU list to it! DOH!

    How do users find newly installed programs usually? The Start Menu highlights newly installed programs until you start them. The fullscreen successor does not and drowns them instead in a seizure inducing mass of jiggling squares.

    Designofail on Skype: Notro Skype is a debacle: "Insanely unintuitive, The idea that one's parents were sitting in front of this piece of software is funny and sad at the same time,  made the editorial shaking their heads in disbelief".

    They open a file from desktop and it opens in full screen Metro app with no obvious way to close it... - They wanted to simplify Windows 8. That's why instead of clicking on an easy to spot bright red X, (that's faaar to power user for the common idiot to understand) you need to "grab" the application by its invisible head and drag it down the drain so that it can disappear. At least the approach is very apt for Windows 8.

    Back to Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R2PAV801IIXOQA/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B008H3SW4I&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag

    -----

    What a PAINFUL experience!!

    NO SHUT DOWN/RESTART/SLEEP button on Start page or Desktop or anywhere except
    buried in a Settings Menu!! - Why a con: This is just STUPID! Its stupid on
    Android, and on other devices that don't have a soft SHUT DOWN button on the
    home/default start page and its stupid here too!

    NO START MENU!!! - Why a con: You have to switch back and forth to the Metro UI
    START Pages, right click to turn on all aps and end up paging thru multiple
    pages of icons or using search & hunting for what you want. I did install a
    widget that gave me a Start menu, it was Ok.

    Yes, I asked for HELP:
    I called Microsoft .. Start Menu & Shut off: Tech response: Sorry you can't have a Start Menu or a shut off button, Windows 8 is for Tongue Out new technology and touch screens. Tongue Out

    -----

    Oh, if Notrocula is for touch devices, WHY IS IT DEFAULT ON LAPTOPS AND DESKTOPS TOO, HMMM?!?

    The phantom limb.. device OS. It needs devices, 90% of the existing customers don't have, nor desire.

    Look it's very simple guys. "Green Megaman" goes with "Red Megaman" and "Yellow  Megaman" to make the "Ultra Mega Megaman." You have to have all 3 or it doesn't  work, see?

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Windows 8! Were tasks get simplified by invisible controls, essential functions work best with phantom devices and computer newbies get help by removing any visual cues. I hope you tune in next week when Steven Sinofsky shows you on his new show on cable how fishing is far more easier using screwdrivers and toothbrushes instead of fishing rods. Stay tuned!

  • evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Notro COURSE crippled! ...! ... Hillarious... proof ... trainwreck  Designofail Sinofksy's genius  tears wrestle the beast ... like the beasts in the Bible. ... 99% of the computer using populace is using.  "no compromise"...and now that this function is gone, ...is utterly broken. 

    Ya, sure, if you only knew that!  no indication like cnn.com, only that CNN HAS a search box!

    designofail I can  hear you! I use it to pin my favourite porn sites onto it! DOH!

    a seizure inducing mass of jiggling squares. Designofail Notro Skype debacle faaar power user common idiot drag it down the drain 

    Notrocula CAPITAL LETTERS ARE GREAT, HMMM?!?  phantom limb.. 90% of existing customers don't have. Green Megaman Red Megaman Yellow Megaman Ultra Mega Megaman.

    Stay tuned!

    I abbreviated your post for those who couldn't be bothered to wade through it.

    I think I captured the gist of it.

  • vesuvius

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I abbreviated your post for those who couldn't be bothered to wade through it.

    I think I captured the gist of it.

    Thanks for that, he needs to write a book.

  • Bas

    The posting here is getting spectacular. At first it was just the annoying same-old, but it's starting to descend into madness now. Very entertaining.

  • JohnAskew

    On this forum, there's nothing quite as wonky as stream-of-consciousness from a vendor-specific ludditious troll.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I abbreviated your post for those who couldn't be bothered to wade through it.

    Thanks. I like it!

    In meantime, look what Jakob Nielsen has to say:

    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @wastingtimewithforums: Nice article. Nail meets hammer. For me it's pretty simple (remember this is just IMO):

    1. No desktop story: WPF/SL is dead. The desktop is hampered by incursions from the Windows Store App environment. Removal of the start menu and movement of control panel applets to the PC Settings Windows Store App environment confirm that this is a migration from the desktop to the Windows Store App environment. The desktop is legacy.
    2. Windows RT is an "also-ran": Poor performance, high price, few apps. This platform is dead right out of the gate.
    3. WP8: While it's sweet and slick if offers little over WP7 (and in some cases takes it a step backwards). We all know how poorly WP7 did in the market. WP8 doesn't seems to be doing much better.

    IMO, Microsoft's hope is pinned on Windows Pro 8. They need a broad adoption of tablets and other touch driven devices by both the consumer and business to drive up demand for Windows Store apps. If that never happens then what is the value of W8 and the whole push to WinRT & touch based apps? I'm all for investing in the future and I applaud Microsoft for biting the bullet and trying to reinvent Windows. IMO the problem is in the end they didn't end up providing a vastly improved Windows nor did they introduce a game changer (i.e. Courier) that would disrupt the market. Hopefully someone at Microsoft can take the good bits out of W8 and build something in W9 (or another product) that will truly put them back in the spotlight.

  • magicalclick

    ell from the msdn forum, they suggested me to use Chrome to visit profile.microsoft.com to fix the error message. I am going to try that when I get home. Hope Chrome can handle Microsoft site better than IE10. I really need to get the product key for my VS Express.W

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • wastingtime​withforums

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums: Nice article. Nail meets hammer. For me it's pretty simple (remember this is just IMO):

    1. The desktop is legacy

    That's what they want. But this must be the first time in tech history where the successor tech is so much worse than the predecessor. Just see the list of regressions in my first post of this thread.

     

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    2. Windows RT is an "also-ran": Poor performance, high price, few apps. This platform is dead right out of the gate.

    I think Microsoft wanted to accelerate the abandonment of the desktop with these WinRT only devices. Though, how that would work is a mystery to me. The Surface costs as much as the iPad for example, yet has far less useful apps and a somewhat uncertain future. Why would you buy that instead of an iPad + keyboard? Especially since the cheapest Surface doesn't even come with the Touchcover. In both cases the keyboard is essentialy an accessoire.

    Do they think the Win8 interface is so awesome, that people would buy just for that?

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    3. WP8: While it's sweet and slick if offers little over WP7 (and in some cases takes it a step backwards). We all know how poorly WP7 did in the market. WP8 doesn't seems to be doing much better.

    It takes a step backwards? Could you explain? I haven't occupied myself with the WP8 topic and have no idea what's going on with it.

    Anyway, here's a heretical thought: Maybe the reason people don't buy WP devices is that they just don't like them? For most people, a smartphone is still somewhat toyish, a mobile game console thing. And what's the Metro design about? Mono-color and artsy crap about how "typography is beautiful". Yeah, prime example of product meets target audience.. every Metro device so far failed (Zune, Kin, WP7..) maybe that could be a hint, huh?

     

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    IMO, Microsoft's hope is pinned on Windows Pro 8. They need a broad adoption of tablets and other touch driven devices by both the consumer and business to drive up demand for Windows Store apps.

    I am still puzzled how that will work though. friggin' WPF is superior to WinRT. What do I begin with WPF - MFC can produce far more powerful products! You can't even resize the Metro apps, for God's sake.

    How do they think businesses will cozy up to this? How do you rewrite one of these huge custom biz apps with sprawling windows etc. for the Metro environment? And what about CAD, professional music software, 3D modelling, image manipulating, IDEs and the list goes on? No way! Seriously, they would rather migrate to Mac than that. At least the primary framework there allows you to program applications with more than one window and and you still have such cutting edge tech like.. drag and drop.. at your disposal.

    Even Microsoft proves it with their absolutely ridiculous apps in W8 (mail anyone?), that their Notro-All-The-Way goal has severe reality issues.

    And it's not like consumers are all just dumb Angry Birds addicted idiots. Tons of them run more complex software like Quicken and the like. What the hell is Microsoft expecting with all this? Seriously?

    Let's be frank: Their plan seems to be to convert all users into a 1980s style API, because on that technological ability level is the whole app-framework in Win8. That is the most retarded tech strategy ever put on paper IMO.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    It takes a step backwards? Could you explain? I haven't occupied myself with the WP8 topic and have no idea what's going on with it.

    Anyway, here's a heretical thought: Maybe the reason people don't buy WP devices is that they just don't like them? For most people, a smartphone is still somewhat toyish, a mobile game console thing. And what's the Metro design about? Mono-color and artsy crap about how "typography is beautiful". Yeah, prime example of product meets target audience.. every Metro device so far failed (Zune, Kin, WP7..) maybe that could be a hint, huh?

     

    See this thread for starters on WP8 back-stepping.

    I like WP8/7's UI. It's just as a smartphone it's not overwhelmingly better than anything else. I am puzzled on how it doesn't seem to get the buzz Apple does for being shiny.

    *snip*

    How do they think businesses will cozy up to this? How do you rewrite one of these huge custom biz apps with sprawling windows etc. for the Metro environment?

    Yep. Here's an example of what they are thinking businesses will do. I just can't imagine that many businesses going out and spending the kind of money on hardware and software development to pull this off. It reminds me of the big push to Linux on the desktop. You had a few big companies and municipalities make big commitments to Linux on the desktop and a few years later [crickets].

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • Jim Young

    , vesuvius wrote

    *snip*

    Thanks for that, he needs to write a book.

    Don't encourage him.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    I like WP8/7's UI

    I have no problems with the Metro UI on phones too (where it belongs, frankly), just my theory why it isn't selling as much. Actually, I wish it well. If WP7 would have been a runaway success, maybe MS wouldn't do PR stunts like Win8.

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    I am puzzled on how it doesn't seem to get the buzz Apple does for being shiny.

    Well it got design awards, problem is, no one cares much about those though. And as I said many times here, Apple is Gucci. It's not rational to compete on shiny with Gucci.

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Yep. Here's an example of what they are thinking businesses will do.

    So, they're deploying something like a enhanced, custom Media Center. Sure, Metro can work for that, since the MC itself was Metro-like already.

    I fail to see how that edge-case is an definitive example of something though.

  • magicalclick

    @DeathByVisualStudioMadwastingtimewithforums:

     

    since I am the thread creator, just to make it clear. I am a big winph fan who started winph path all the way from begining. Unless many people who doesn't even have Mango plus WinPh8. You guys may use this as attack surface, but, just to clearify I truely care about winph and a big supporter of the platform. Slow sales is ok, I just really wish my experience is not crippled.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • TexasToast

    Windows RT is an "also-ran": Poor performance, high price, few apps. This platform is dead right out of the gate.

    I think you are confusing Windows RT with Surface.   Surface uses Windows RT but is compiled for ARM processors but Windows RT could compile for Intel as it always has.  

    Windows RT is a glorified Interop layer to Windows System calls that make it easier to program to system level API's and cuts down on the fat of having a .Net library for everything.  Right now they limited it for these so called Windows store apps.   I expect it to expand for desktop apps too.     The performance should be better.    It might stink a little on arm in some instances but that has more to do with porting windows system to ARM than using Windows RT.

  • spivonious

    I'll say it again, Windows RT is not an "also ran". It's a perfectly viable competitor to Android and iPad. Performance is perfectly acceptable. An off-the-shelf ARM SOC is not going to perform as well as an Apple-tuned SOC in the iPad. Android has had years to tweak performance.

    My wife has had zero complaints. I know this is only one person, but it's someone who knows what she wants and doesn't hesitate to send issues to her "sys admin".

    @TexasToast - Windows RT (OS) != WinRT (API)

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