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New anti-Win8 video is making rounds

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  • User profile image
    Lizard​Rumsfeld

    , warren wrote

    *snip*

    A lot of people... I mean, a lot of people hated Aero.  Flip back through the Coffeehouse to 2006 or so, you'll see what I mean. 

    Well, the Coffeehouse is hardly representative of the public as a whole, hell this forum is relatively dead compared to most other Win tech forums I populate.

    From my experience, the press and public in general thought Win7 was quite attractive.  One of the reasons is that its design was the most cohesive of any Windows OS to date, which has always been a negative with Windows (and with one fell swoop, Win8 undoes all that work).  Yes, the transparency was over the top at times, in fact one aspect of it I critiqued heavily was that it dispensed with making the taskbar/titlebar opaque when maximized, which made sense in Vista (and MS's explanation for it made sense) and I didn't understand why it was removed in Win7 - not even an option.

    However, if you hated the transparency, you could turn it off with a checkbox.  Can't do the opposite in Win8, the ability to customize the desktop appearance has been neutered even further.

    BTW, If you don't like the automatic colour changes in the UI chrome when your desktop background changes, turn it off by setting a specific colour.  You have all the same flexibility as Windows 7 here, with the exception of the translucent glass effect of Vista and 7.  You didn't have that effect in Windows XP so you should be able to live without it in Windows 8. Wink

    I'm aware of that - and comparing the flexibility of the desktop to one in an OS over 10 years old is not exactly a glowing point in Win8's favour.

  • User profile image
    svelasquez1​23

    There is nothing you can do to convince people that are too stubborn to learn something new.  It took about 2 minutes (~a tenth the length of this guy's video) to follow the synaptics tutorial and realize that the cursor swipe gesture and the app switch gesture are different (app switch is from left edge, while cursor swipe is entirely on the touchpad).  I had to google the win8 shutdown as well as some other items admittedly but I still google some win7 stuff (who doesn't).

  • User profile image
    Lizard​Rumsfeld

    That is such a tired argument in Win8's defence, the "People don't like learning new things!" argument.  It misses the point of the criticism entirely.

    I can use Win8.  I know all the shortcuts and how to activate everything fine.  The critique in the video, and by many others, is that the design choices just don't make sense.  The very fact you had to use Google to learn how to shutdown your PC is emblematic of this.  The video is obviously using hyperbole but drives home the point about how schizophrenic the design is and how little of it appears...well, designed.  Boasting that you can learn it in a shorter time than the video takes to explain its position and the reason for the critique is meaningless.

    People will gladly learn a new interface if its conventions appear well thought-out and add significantly to productivity.  Win8's interface does not appear to satisfy either need - to some degree as a tablet interface it does, but then you're left with the hundreds of millions of PC's where a touchscreen makes little sense, and where Win8's interface changes are a regression in many areas.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    , svelasquez1​23 wrote

      I had to google the win8 shutdown as well as some other items admittedly but I still google some win7 stuff (who doesn't).

    Mmm. If you have to google to find out how to shut the OS down, doesn't this point to a design flaw somewhere?

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , NitzWalsh wrote

    The very fact you had to use Google to learn how to shutdown your PC is emblematic of this.

    I agree about this one single particular point.  But that isn't "emblematic", it is a single point that is a very separate issue than any of the rest.

    Besides, it's not like shutdown has ever been obvious.  In Windows 3.1, you had to go to Program Manager, then the File menu and then you had the option to exit Windows.  In Windows 95/98/Me/XP, you had to go to Start to shutdown... how does that make sense?  In Vista and 7, you first have to go to the orb with the Windows logo.  Vista was even more confusing because it gave you a red button with a circle/line symbol for shutdown (whereas 7 used the words "Shut Down").

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    , Ray7 wrote

    *snip*

    Mmm. If you have to google to find out how to shut the OS down, doesn't this point to a design flaw somewhere?

    As I said before, none of the new OS's are intuitive and require the user to learn the basics from a tutorial to use them -- I still have no idea how you switch off an iPad after using one for 20 minutes (we ended up just closing the cover and putting it away on the assumption it would sleep eventually).

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    Just remember that the power button is still the best way to tell your computer, "I'm done with you for now."  It will suspend the computer, which is what most people want it to do.

    You should rarely need to manually restart using the Power icon.  That's not the greatest excuse, but good UI design dictates that rarely used features should be less discoverable than features you use all the time.

    Windows isn't the Windows you used to know.  Think about how an iPad "just works", and realize that Microsoft is going towards the "just works" model.  It can be better than it is now, but at least that direction has been established.

  • User profile image
    Lizard​Rumsfeld

    , Dr Herbie wrote

    *snip*

    As I said before, none of the new OS's are intuitive and require the user to learn the basics from a tutorial to use them

    Because Win8 is being criticized, all OS's are equally unintuitive? Please.  Win8 is in a league of its own, and the poor reviews reflect that.

    I still have no idea how you switch off an iPad after using one for 20 minutes (we ended up just closing the cover and putting it away on the assumption it would sleep eventually).

    ...which it does, and is very aggressive with its default sleep settings.  It can sleep for weeks/months with barely losing any charge, and wake up in less than a second. 

    Secondly, it's a handheld device.  The power button is right there if you need it (how did you ever power it on?), but you rarely do.  This is a perfect example of where minimalism makes sense for the form factor, and why the iPad's design was praised, and one of the reason it dominates the tablet market.  Tailoring the OS for the product, removing features/adding them where it makes sense for the form factor. 

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    , NitzWalsh wrote

    *snip*

    Because Win8 is being criticized, all OS's are equally unintuitive? Please.  Win8 is in a league of its own, and the poor reviews reflect that.

    I didn't say 'equally' unintuitive, I was merely pointing out that the reviewer's attitude was that he should be able to pick up a new OS and know how to use it -- that's not just an issue with Win8. If I ever get an iPad to use (rather than just playing with someone else's for the sake of curiosity) I'll take the time to read about how to use it rather than posting a ranting review of how I "can't get anything done".

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , NitzWalsh wrote

    People will gladly learn a new interface if its conventions appear well thought-out and add significantly to productivity.  Win8's interface does not appear to satisfy either need - to some degree as a tablet interface it does, but then you're left with the hundreds of millions of PC's where a touchscreen makes little sense, and where Win8's interface changes are a regression in many areas.

    Wait, if things are unintuitive and poorly thought out then they're unintuitive and poorly thought out on a tablet interface, too.

    But there are plenty of ways Win8 is better on a Desktop too, the less easily discoverable aspects you're talking about aside. The problem with reviews like this isn't that they don't have a valid perspective, but they're simply not fair and balanced reviews.

    Plenty of people enjoy Win8 on a day-to-day basis, on a desktop, even if at first they scratched their head about the location of the shutdown/restart options. These people aren't all paid money by Microsoft ; acknowledge that, and we can have a discussion.

  • User profile image
    elmer
  • User profile image
    mstefanik

    Plenty of people enjoy Win8 on a day-to-day basis, on a desktop, even if at first they scratched their head about the location of the shutdown/restart options. These people aren't all paid money by Microsoft ; acknowledge that, and we can have a discussion.

    I'm sure that's true. That said, I wonder how many of those people who enjoy Windows 8 are office workers. It's as if Microsoft decided that they're going to solely focus on the consumer market and businesses are a "lost cause" because they've had a hard enough time convincing those folks to migrate away from XP, let alone Windows 7.

    So here's this shiney new thing designed for consuming content on tables and phones, but you desktop people who create content? You're a shrinking profit center for us and we're not going to spend any significant effort on you -- we're just going to phone it in and give you a "desktop app" to work in. Don't like it? Then use an older version of the operating system and/or eat your vegetables and shut up about it already.

     

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    , brian.​shapiro wrote

    *snip*

    Wait, if things are unintuitive and poorly thought out then they're unintuitive and poorly thought out on a tablet interface, too.

    This statement blatantly assumes that tablets being used with a touch interface are interacted with in the same ways as desktop computers with mice and keyboards. Sliding in from the right is, in fact, somewhat intuitive on a tablet that I am holding in my hand which is why the tablet UI conventions in Windows 8 work on a tablet.

    Tell me -- exactly what is intuitive about bringing up a UI element on my desktop computer by doing a circle jerk in the corner with my mouse pointer then moving downward, or what is intuitive about using my mouse as if it were manipulating an invisible finger on my screen?

    ----------------------------------

    As to Aero ---- this seems to happen a lot at Microsoft and I don't get why --- would there have been earthquakes, plagues, or a post atomic horror if Aero was left in as an optional theme? It's the only theme post XP that doesn't look like *, IMO. The desktop theme and colors in W8 look absolutely horrible and the customization seems less capable than XP.

    Before anyone busts out the tired old "it costs money to maintain code" -- I will preemptively call BS. It's a fracking theme, not a network stack or print subsystem.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    @Craig_Matthews:

    I'm not assuming anything.

    If we're talking about the Start Screen in particular, I don't think there's anything about it that requires you to think of yourself as using your mouse as if its a finger. As for the charms and start menu.. hot corners have existed in desktop software for ages. How to use it requires instruction, as it does on the tablet.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , mstefanik wrote

    *snip*

    So here's this shiney new thing designed for consuming content on tables and phones, but you desktop people who create content? You're a shrinking profit center for us and we're not going to spend any significant effort on you -- we're just going to phone it in and give you a "desktop app" to work in.

    It's not just 'content creators'.

    Where I work we have a lot of people functioning in 'call centre' type of tasks - handling complex customer requests over the phone. Each are running dual-large-monitor desktops and using multiple apps on the screens, typing in details, copy/pasting from one to another, and reading to the customer from multiple sources.

    Each call is a potential 'sale' and losing just one of those because the operator couldn't do the task the way they were used to, would be expensive. Touch apps are just not going to cut it for us, and the Win8 desktop doesn't give us what we want/need.

    While I'm sure we could make Win8 work and re-train our staff (although not a trivial exercise in itself) it just doesn't stack up when Win7 already does the job we want. Hence, we will only be buying on a 'need to replace hardware' basis, as we have no need to buy for a 'upgrade the O/S' basis.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    I'd like to request that the following sub-forums be created in the Coffeehouse:

    • "Anti-government Bitchfest Forum"
    • "Javascript is awesome! Be Scared, C# Developers! Forum"
    • "Windows 8 Bitchfest Forum"
  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    @cbae: Or just a general, all-encompassing "Would you like some cheese with that whine?"

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    @Mr Crash: While I don't support the overall tone and tenor of your post, I think you've hit upon something. 

    I believe the techie/tinkerer types among us are going to be pushed out of the Windows arena as MS seemingly, inexorably moves toward the apple model. MS, Apple, and Google will battle over the consumer market while niche needs - and perhaps not so niche - will be increasingly be met by... Open Source? Linux? Time will tell. I wonder too whether any significant user base will follow as some other platform(s) facilitate non-consumer innovation.

    ... just thinking out loud. But, then again, I though OS2 was going to prevail :-0

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