Coffeehouse Thread

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OK, Microsoft has gone crazy

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  • User profile image
    Bass

    I hear you can buy a book on JavaScript for 50% off these days. You guys ought to act quickly before all the rest of the .NET refugees buy them out.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , Bass wrote

    I hear you can buy a book on JavaScript for 50% off these days. You guys ought to act quickly before all the rest of the .NET refugees buy them out.

    You need it to be 50% off so you can buy a book on jQuery with the leftover money Smiley

    I already know Js, and I know .NET , I'd prefer to code in WPF over HTML+Js any day. If the issue with you is .NET isn't open source, I'd prefer the solution of open sourcing .NET rather than turning to Js+HTML

    Not that I actually think Microsoft will abandon WPF, anyway; just speaking hypothetically.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    , BitFlipper wrote

    *snip*

    That is not an acceptable solution. So what you are saying is that anything that isn't an HTML5/JS crApplet would be considered legacy in Windows 8.

    Yes.  Kinda like how WinForms are considered legacy.  Except that in my experience, WinForms apps are always chosen over WPF, SL, and any other technology when written.  funny that.

    There are many real applications that never was, isn't, and never will be able to be shoved into a browser. Once again I bring up this example. So any future version of that application would forever be considered a legacy application unless the whole thing is re-written in wonderful HTML5/JS.

    They would only be considered legacy if you are the kind of person who likes shiny things.   Hmmmm... perhaps MSFT gets into the pattern of bringing up new technologies because so many developers like shiny things.  The cure?  Take a Ritalin.

    A proper business wants tried and true technology.  WPF is getting there, but too many developers still don't have the XAML chops so it's just easier and cleaner to write WinForms apps knowing that you'll have a vast wealth of devs that understand it.

    I'm still baffled by the fact that some people think a browser is the answer to everything.

    It certainly is the answer to a question that goes like "How can I freak out a bunch of nancy developers".

  • User profile image
    Frank Hileman

    .net will probably be supported in 20 years on Windows. Microsoft libraries are continuously created and marketed, so it is best not to get emotionally attached to any flavor of the month, as it will be "legacy" in 2-3 years. That said, it takes a very long time for anything to become truly obsolete. Focus on languages and forget about the libraries.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    , BitFlipper wrote

    *snip*

    That is not an acceptable solution. So what you are saying is that anything that isn't an HTML5/JS crApplet would be considered legacy in Windows 8. There are many real applications that never was, isn't, and never will be able to be shoved into a browser. Once again I bring up this example. So any future version of that application would forever be considered a legacy application unless the whole thing is re-written in wonderful HTML5/JS.

    I'm still baffled by the fact that some people think a browser is the answer to everything.

    You're worked up all over the use of the word "legacy"?

    WinForms (and WPF) will always be a part of the .NET Framework, right through until Microsoft stops supporting it entirely (which is unlikely to happen for at least 20 years when you look at how Java's been used). Yes, there probably will be breaking changes between major releases of the framework but nothing that can't be fixed in 5 minutes with VS.

    "Legacy" simply means "we won't be spending time adding new features", which is a good thing: it means the platform is stable. It does not mean "we're going to remove the whole feature entirely from the .NET Framework during the next security patch". WinForms is legacy no more than MFC or even CreateWindowEx are.

    As for myself, I'm looking forward to some new stuff I want to implement in WinForms. There is so much unexplored potential in the platform.

    I don't personally use WPF, for many reasons I've enumerated on this forum in the past, but today I discovered another reason: yet more inconsistency with the host platform. Apparently WPF Aero borders do not match the system defaults unless you hack it. Nice one, Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    You coming to build, Paolo? Others? Come on, Niners. Represent! Smiley
    C

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    , Charles wrote

    You coming to build, Paolo? Others? Come on, Niners. Represent! Smiley
    C

    BuildWindows.com

    Full Conference Pass
    Discount through August 1
    $1,595
    Price after August 1
    $2,095
     
    Expo Hall Only Pass
    $100

    Bugger off.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    , Charles wrote

    You coming to build, Paolo? Others? Come on, Niners. Represent! Smiley
    C

    Nah, I prefer to watch streaming without me sitting on the ground. (last time all sits were taken). Also I find the event boring when my free pass was only for Azure conference, which was boring as I already knew all of it online. You guys go and share for me Tongue Out

     

    Hell, I am not even too excited about E3 anymore as I can get it online already. Those one year early demos I can wait. I am getting too old, those conventions tires me.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    I don't personally use WPF, for many reasons I've enumerated on this forum in the past, but today I discovered another reason: yet more inconsistency with the host platform. Apparently WPF Aero borders do not match the system defaults unless you hack it. Nice one, Microsoft.

    WPF doesn't draw the window frame, W3bbo, only the window contents.

    Anyway, 'legacy' implies its deprecated.

     

  • User profile image
    beerinbelgi​um

    @Charles:

    You coming to build, Paolo? Others? Come on, Niners. Represent!
    C

    If you want to write a long winded letter to accounts payable at my company and ask them to foot the bill, I will totally go. I don't even like Microsoft, but I'll drink your beer all the same.

    They made me take f'ing PTO for the Google I/O days for the first time in 3 years, so I would love to see you try.

    You wanna convince my company to pay? I'll arrange it so you can come down and talk to some of the execs during lunch. They're not really fans of your company, but it would be fun none the less. Oh, and I wanna video tape it. "Charles vs. corporate cutters"

    I live right near Anaheim ftw.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    I've never been to a Microsoft conference and actually I'd like to go, but I doubt I'd be able to convince my employer to pay for a conference unrelated to the technology I use at work. Sad

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    I'm hoping to go to this conference instead.  Big Smile

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    "Legacy" means they won't develop it further. WPF and Silverlight both need more work. That really speaks of a premature taking out to pasture. You could also say that Microsoft doesn't see them worth fixing. Kinda like linq to sql getting an early culling by the premature birth of EF. Yeah they really went to town on Linq's designer after EF was in incubation.

    I'm sure we'll get one more round of WPF & Silverlight updates but they'll be meager and have little to do with the grand new scheme in Windows 8.

    I'm looking forward to dredging up these threads in a few months just to laugh at those who thought Microsoft was going to do the right thing for us developers.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Base12

    I got a call from a customer two days ago that was going to go with Silverlight and now they are telling me they are considering a previous company that showed them that Silverlight is a dead technology..they offered an alternative which they did not tell me.  Good going....  all this confusion is being used against MS programmers by the other guys...and they won this one.

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    ""Legacy" means they won't develop it further. WPF and Silverlight both need more work. That really speaks of a premature taking out to pasture. You could also say that Microsoft doesn't see them worth fixing. Kinda like linq to sql getting an early culling by the premature birth of EF. Yeah they really went to town on Linq's designer after EF was in incubation."

    Weirdly the new embedded database API in Windows Phone Mango is a version of LINQ to SQL, not EF or straight SQL/ADO.NET or something new. It even adds a few new features not in the desktop version. So I guess not everyone at Microsoft thinks L2S is dead ...

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , contextfree` wrote

     

    Weirdly the new embedded database API in Windows Phone Mango is a version of LINQ to SQL, not EF or straight SQL/ADO.NET or something new. It even adds a few new features not in the desktop version. So I guess not everyone at Microsoft thinks L2S is dead ...

    LOL! I would love to shake the hands of the folks that made that decision. That said you get my point. They won't be going back to finish what they started on L2S. My Winforms friends who still use datasets laugh at me when I try and use the L2S designer in some of my older projects. The dataset designer was much more feature complete than L2S ever was.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    , Charles wrote

    You coming to build, Paolo? Others? Come on, Niners. Represent! Smiley
    C

    Unfortunately, on the 14th I fly to Paris... I *may* get there for the first day, but I don't really want to spend pretty much two days in an airplane Smiley

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    , beerinbelgi​um wrote

    @Charles:

    *snip*

    If you want to write a long winded letter to accounts payable at my company and ask them to foot the bill, I will totally go. I don't even like Microsoft, but I'll drink your beer all the same.

    You have to *ask*?!

    They made me take f'ing PTO for the Google I/O days for the first time in 3 years, so I would love to see you try.

    You had to use your PTO?! LOL

    Maybe you should find a better job, where you don't have to beg and employees are not treated like swappable resources...

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