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Office 365 Outlook - Clutter

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  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    Microsoft turns on Clutter to keep your inbox clean

    Seriously? Do you let someone else manage your Inbox? Why would you defer this responsibility to "machine learning"? I hear nothing but jeers - or worse - as this feature is thrust upon the office where I work.

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    , ScottWelker wrote

    Seriously? Do you let someone else manage your Inbox? Why would you defer this responsibility to "machine learning"?

    In a sense, yes. I don't know what you do, but I have plenty of junk-mail filters on every mailbox I have and this looks exactly like the same concept, except labelled differently.

    Might not be for everybody; it probably depends on how many messages (and how much noise)you receive every day.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    @ScottWelker: I'm with you, I like to manage my own email (with the exception of spam, of course). You never know when a "low priority" clutter message might actually be important. It's not hard to setup rules for the true clutter.

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    , spivonious wrote

    ...You never know when a "low priority" clutter message might actually be important.


    I can't verify the veracity of the claim but, one person was nothing less than enraged that they missed just such an Email(s). I of course immediately turned off the feature upon seeing the notice. I had the the opportunity - and time. Apparently not all were so fortunate.

    @Blue Ink: I suppose I see your point. I just question the wisdom of turning it on by default and, whether we need another place to tell users to look for their missing email. And, of course, I use spam filtering on MY own email system. The Outlook/Office365 required by my present client seems comparatively anaemic.

  • User profile image
    Harlock123n​ew

    Personally I have turned on WHITE LIST management of my inbox, so clutter has not actually had any real effect for me. (Its moved nothing because the WHITE LIST moves all items not on my list to junk). I monitor the junk periodically just to add the occasional item from it to the WHITE LIST by informing outlook that its NOT JUNK... Overall very effective at keeping the inbox on point and devoid of the copious bilge that pervades email now a days...

     

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    I remember using a Bayesian spam filter plugin for Outlook a long time ago. It actually worked really well.

    I'm not using it right now simply because I'm too lazy to install it again. At some point I just accepted defeat and now I just skim through the dozens and dozens of emails I get every day looking for anything important. I don't even bother deleting the sea of junk anymore as it just takes too long, and HD space is cheap.

    EDIT: Part is also because I'm a big procrastinator. I did join Procrastinators Anonymous, but no-one ever shows up for the meetings.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    @ScottWelker: For a record, I use "rules" to move emails automatically to different folders. Clutter is just an automatic version of it. (Not all Outlook users are technology savvy people to know that there even exist a tool for it in the first place)

    So if you feel that you want to do it (or not doing it) yourself, feel free to do so. As long as they provide an option to turn it off, there aren't much a problem.

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  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    @cheong:

    , cheong wrote

    As long as they provide an option to turn it off, there aren't much a problem.

    The enraged office mate would beg to differ... "In theory theory and practice are the same. In practice they are not" Of course it was "the office mate's fault" for not heading the MS notice. Still the bad taste is there and it my not wash out.

    Again, I question the wisdom of turning this on by default. Don't move the cheese... Announce that the cheese can be moved (or even will be moved). Ample notice is just good manners - IMHO.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    , ScottWelker wrote

    @cheong:

    *snip*

    The enraged office mate would beg to differ... "In theory theory and practice are the same. In practice they are not" Of course it was "the office mate's fault" for not heading the MS notice. Still the bad taste is there and it my not wash out.

    Again, I question the wisdom of turning this on by default. Don't move the cheese... Announce that the cheese can be moved (or even will be moved). Ample notice is just good manners - IMHO.

    I don't particularly care about the feature one way or another because I don't have Office 365. However, there was notice. Like I said, I don't have Office 365, but I've known for months that Clutter was going to be turned on. It's been posted all over the place.

  • User profile image
    NoelCarboni

    After running Office 365 for a year and a half (can't say I didn't give it a good try), I upgraded back to Office 2010 a few months ago.  And YES, it is an upgrade.  No, it's not just you, or resistance to change.

    Best decision I've made, besides choosing not to upgrade my business to Win 10, in recent history.

    -Noel

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    , kettch wrote

    *snip*

    ... I've known for months that Clutter was going to be turned on. It's been posted all over the place.

    Indeed. We geeks (no insult intended) knew and I acted immediately to disable the feature.

    The referenced office mate is a non-technical, extremely busy business executive who did not heed the "your cheese was just moved" notice (Perhaps internal IT is partly at fault here). However, I would not expect the average Office365 user to have known or appreciated the after-the-fact notice. Again, bad form - IMHO.

    "Tell 'em what your gonna do. Tell 'em you are doing it. Tell 'em it's done" - Most (business) folks do not appreciate surprises. This left a bad taste...

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    < self censor: Post added no value. >

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , spivonious wrote

    @ScottWelker: I'm with you, I like to manage my own email (with the exception of spam, of course). You never know when a "low priority" clutter message might actually be important. It's not hard to setup rules for the true clutter.

    Clutter is nothing more than a very aggressive spam filter. Almost all the messages it's "detected" in my inbox are (internal) email I otherwise had set to fly straight into the junk box.

    TBH I'd like to see this feature upgraded to despatch an operative with a crossbow to deal with the senders of all detected messages, and ensure they never misuse their access to the global address lists ever again.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , ScottWelker wrote

    *snip*

    Indeed. We geeks (no insult intended) knew and I acted immediately to disable the feature.

    The referenced office mate is a non-technical, extremely busy business executive who did not heed the "your cheese was just moved" notice (Perhaps internal IT is partly at fault here). However, I would not expect the average Office365 user to have known or appreciated the after-the-fact notice. Again, bad form - IMHO.

    "Tell 'em what your gonna do. Tell 'em you are doing it. Tell 'em it's done" - Most (business) folks do not appreciate surprises. This left a bad taste...

    I had messages before, the fact, several weeks of messages after the fact explicitly listing messaged that had been moved for my review and (IIRC) tooltip type popups in Outlook web app informing me what was going on too.

    Also, afaik, one of the ways clutter works is by monitoring how you deal with emails - so if emails are being cluttered it's very, very likely your colleague never actually read them. I can't help but suspect your colleague was making excuses for forgetting about, or ignoring, the email in question...

    Besides, as with your junk folder, you should periodically glance over clutter to make sure it didn't make an error. Not doing so is like complaining he tied his car accelerator to the floor, and closed his eyes, and the car drove into a wall.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    , ScottWelker wrote

    @cheong:

    Again, I question the wisdom of turning this on by default. Don't move the cheese... Announce that the cheese can be moved (or even will be moved). Ample notice is just good manners - IMHO.

    In practice, annoucing a feature that is turned off by default then need user to turn on themselves means over 70% of users will never turn the feature on because they'll just ignore the notice.

    If there is a PM trying to make it a point in their performance review, this is definately not a good news.

    Therefore in reality, unless that feature is known to have very high possiblity to break things (say, if one day they decided to support "SSL protected" ways of connection only), it usually released on opt-out rather than opt-in approach.

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  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    GoddersUK / cheong, I see merit in some of your suppositions and points but, I'll stick by mine.

    I think it would serve us techies well to remember that, for the vast majority of our users, the computer and its software are merely tools to help get some job done.  We cannot reach into our trusty toolbox, pull out the claw hammer and only then find that it has decided it can no longer pull nails. Overly simplistic to be sure but I think it makes the point :-/

  • User profile image
    ClamBake

    Let's see....

    Office 365 roll out...

    Disabled Clutter....

    Accessed OWA from field...

    Clutter automatically enabled on my office Outlook Client

    Missed several critical emails that were automatically moved to Clutter

    Disable Clutter AGAIN....

    Accessed Outlook again in the field AND AGAIN clutter was automatically re-enabled.

    Our IT support staff opened a support ticket with MS.  Final resolution yet to be determined.

    General consensus with my company with over 5,000 employees is that this is NOT needed.  We literally filter out ten's of millions of messages each day.  We have wasted many, many hours dealing with support issues relating to this clutter feature.  More importantly because it has been enabled by default AND has re-enabled itself in certain circumstances automatically we have had it adversely affect customer relations and service.  Microsoft I hope you are listening - just because it might be a good idea for one person definitely does not mean it is good across the board.  You have cost me money, time, AND more importantly client trust.  If I do not want this "feature" then there should be a permanent solution and it should be an opt-in by default.  Just hiding and/or disabling it also is only adding to the problem. 

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    , ClamBake wrote

      If I do not want this "feature" then there should be a permanent solution and it should be an opt-in by default.  Just hiding and/or disabling it also is only adding to the problem. 

    On my phone Facebook decided that they would not let me read a message until I installed their messenger client. I can scarcely believe what software companies are doing to their end users now. 

    Whenever I have met Microsoft enthusiasts, be that developers or enthusiasts, I have always been struck by the overwhelming loyalty they display, even more than Apple users that people tend to think as the most devoted

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