Coffeehouse Thread

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Once again MS does all it can to make WP fail

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  • magicalclick

    , Ray7 wrote

    *snip*

    True enough. And I guess you will know soon enough if your price isn't reasonable because your customers will tell you, in one way or another.

    Without decent competition to iPod, iPhone, and a bit of iPad  for years, yup, I see what you mean. yup they are so very expensive, how sucks.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • magicalclick

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    In that thread, I argued against putting it into the display housing. I feel that functionality belongs in a set-top box, but I think set-top boxes should do more--serve as game console, HTPC, etc. That's what I wanted the Xbox 720 to be in the thread that I started several months ago.

    . you are only saying this because ms has no strong plan on tv OS focus. Would you buy 35inch hp all-in-one and buy a windows media center box? good luck with that.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • Ray7

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    No, I just want to fawn over it for a few minutes.

    Here ya go, found you one.

    Lookin' is free.

    But if you do want to buy it, you'll need a job ... Wink

     

  • cbae

    , magicalclick wrote

    *snip*. you are only saying this because ms has no strong plan on tv OS focus. Would you buy 35inch hp all-in-one and buy a windows media center box? good luck with that.

    No, I'm saying this because TVs are designed (and priced) to last a long time (not to mention a royal PITA to purchase and mount). I don't want any reason to have to replace it every 3 to 5 years.

  • cbae

    , Ray7 wrote

    *snip*

    Here ya go, found you one.

    Lookin' is free.

    But if you do want to buy it, you'll need a job ... Wink

     

    Meh. I'd rather play golf.

  • spivonious

    How did we get into this from MS releasing an XBL app for iOS?

    All OSes have good parts and bad parts, otherwise we wouldn't have so many to choose from. I'd love Windows to be cheaper, but if you take a step back and realize just how much work goes into Windows, it's amazing that they can keep it as cheap as it is. I wouldn't want a version that came with no applications, because then I'd need to buy Explorer, Notepad, Paint, Clipboard, Control Panel, etc.

  • magicalclick

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    No, I'm saying this because TVs are designed (and priced) to last a long time (not to mention a royal PITA to purchase and mount). I don't want any reason to have to replace it every 3 to 5 years.

    Yup, cellphone is like that, all-in-one pc display is like that, notebook display is like that, tablet PC display is like that. They are all build to last. Honestly cellphone should be 60 bucks without plan and last 5 years, which was true long ago.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • Dovella

    2012 is the year of Ultrabook Touch, not buy Stupid Apple Foxconn product like a Lemmings.

    You re developers or idiots consumer?

    Back to Wp7, the problem now is only one : Developer Tool in C++ , app quality like Buildin App.

    Next problem is  ECOSYSTEM, WP7 is only a mobile, iOS is Mp3 player, Mobile and "tablet" .

    For this reason Windows 8 kernel and WP kernel must be unified, but the problem is App. W8 work in WIn RT and WP7 is silverlight adn XNA.  XNA is not compatible with Windows 8 metrĂ² (ARM) .

     

  • W3bbo

    , Ray7 wrote

     

    But if you do want to buy it, you'll need a job ...

    An interesting tidbit: Apple's current design-language hasn't changed since 2007 when they introduced the current design of the iMac and MacBook Pro.

    ...and the design is getting old - we're all used to the thinness of the iPad and MacBook Air. I fully expect major redesigns of those product ranges (and the Mac Pro whilst we're at it) at some point in the next 12 months. I hope so too, because I just don't find the MacBook Pro all that physically attractive anymore.

  • Ray7

    @W3bbo: Mmm. Hadn't realised it had been that long. I still think it's a nicely designed machine, but it is getting rather long in the tooth. The weight is great, but why the obsession with thinness. Who needs a laptop that doubles as a bacon slicer?

    I'd like to see them switch from aluminium, especially on the iPad area which must get dropped a lot. 

    Don't think they'll change it though, not until the sales start to slow down.  

    Right, I've taken this thread waaaay.off-topic. 

  • W3bbo

    , Ray7 wrote

    @W3bbo: Mmm. Hadn't realised it had been that long. I still think it's a nicely designed machine, but it is getting rather long in the tooth. The weight is great, but why the obsession with thinness. Who needs a laptop that doubles as a bacon slicer?

    I'd like to see them switch from aluminium, especially on the iPad area which must get dropped a lot. 

    Don't think they'll change it though, not until the sales start to slow down.  

    Right, I've taken this thread waaaay.off-topic. 

    Macrumors earlier today posted sourced-rumors about Apple finally shipping 4x resolution displays in their MacBook Pros starting Q2 2012!

    If so, then it's likely a major change like this would come with a major hardware redesign (rather than an internal guts 'speed bump' which we get every year or so).

    If Apple only changed designs when sales slowed down, then we'd still be using the pack-of-cards sized iPod - remember that Apple innovates (or at least changes the product in a noticable way) without any of the traditional triggers that prompt the rest of the industry into change.

    EDIT:

    I note the MacRumors article suggests Microsoft is planning the same thing - except we're not seeing any of the hardware companies even touch 4x resolution displays (they still pushing awful 1366x768 screens to impressionable consumers). I also note that WP7's UI is resolution independent, but where are the 360dpi WP7 models?

    The rest of Windows' alternative-DPI support is an embarrassment, not helped by having multiple approaches to the same problem (Windows' DPI setting, Windows' global font size setting, Theme/Visual Style font size setting, DWM window scaling, Windows magnifier, WPF/Silverlight, WinForm's DPI support, etc).

    My Sony Vaio laptop has a very high DPI screen and OOB Windows uses 120dpi mode rather than 96dpi - and all of the pack-in Sony software is unusable in that mode. It's Sony's fault, but I hold Microsoft partially responsible because they allowed this to happen by not presenting a clear strategy for dealing with different display specifications to developers.

  • fanbaby

    , Dovella wrote

    2012 is the year of Ultrabook Touch, not buy Stupid Apple Foxconn product like a Lemmings.

    You re developers or idiots consumer?

    *snip* 

    I don't know about your tech viewing habits, but i'd say 99% of lectures and videos I watch (about jQuery, WEB, JavaScript, cloud computing, nodejs, hadoop, golang, appengine, java...) include a Macbook! The presenters seem like developers but you never know

    EDIT: they might be idiot consumers Smiley

    Maybe it the fact that macs are POSIX (Unix) based.

  • cbae

    @fanbaby:

    But at Google's most important conference they do their keynote presentation on Windows (goto 8:50 or thereabouts):

  • fanbaby

    @cbae: Yes, chrome's development is primarily done on Windows.

  • AndyC

    , W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    The rest of Windows' alternative-DPI support is an embarrassment, not helped by having multiple approaches to the same problem (Windows' DPI setting, Windows' global font size setting, Theme/Visual Style font size setting, DWM window scaling, Windows magnifier, WPF/Silverlight, WinForm's DPI support, etc).

    My Sony Vaio laptop has a very high DPI screen and OOB Windows uses 120dpi mode rather than 96dpi - and all of the pack-in Sony software is unusable in that mode. It's Sony's fault, but I hold Microsoft partially responsible because they allowed this to happen by not presenting a clear strategy for dealing with different display specifications to developers.

    Windows has had extensive support for high DPI displays for a long time, but supporting it is one of those developer "taxes" that blatantly just get ignored. It's not really surprising, when nobody had access to high DPI displays, how was anyone supposed to check they were doing it right and what would have been the point of spending time and effort fixing DPI issues nobody was likely to see? The lack of support in applications meant high DPI displays just caused support issues for those manufacturers that tried them, so everyone stuck with the lowest common denominator.

    It's curious that Apple are contemplating higher DPI displays on Mac, because support for high DPI displays in OS X isn't any better there either. Developers have just tended to ignore it and it's one of those things that can really only partially be solved at an development framework level (well unless you go down the entirely vector, "virtual pixel" based WPF route). I suspect they however will just run with the idea that if they fix the first party apps, it doesn't really matter if high DPI displays make third party applications unusable (that is, after all, their usual modus operandi).

  • Ian2

    Interestingly the difference in DPI between phone and desktop only really hit me when I came to do this: http://livetiles.co.uk/Beta/Default.html The tiles are the same size as their Windows Phone counterparts (173x173) but appear much larger on a desktop/laptop display.  I considered changing the default size for the tiles but it is interesting to me that this size (173x173) feels right on both platforms, in spite of the obvious difference in physical size.

    Anyone else care to comment on this or am I just off on one again? 

  • Ray7

    , W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    Macrumors earlier today posted sourced-rumors about Apple finally shipping 4x resolution displays in their MacBook Pros starting Q2 2012!

    Rumors will be the death of this company.

    If Apple only changed designs when sales slowed down, then we'd still be using the pack-of-cards sized iPod - remember that Apple innovates (or at least changes the product in a noticable way) without any of the traditional triggers that prompt the rest of the industry into change.

    You're quite right. Good point.

    EDIT:

    I note the MacRumors article suggests Microsoft is planning the same thing - except we're not seeing any of the hardware companies even touch 4x resolution displays (they still pushing awful 1366x768 screens to impressionable consumers). I also note that WP7's UI is resolution independent, but where are the 360dpi WP7 models?

    Well, it's the same problem: cost. They're all in competition with each other so they all have to pull stunts to drive their costs down. At the end of the day, they can only produce machines that are pretty much the same. It doesn't give them enough room to differentiate.

    Apple does the hardware R&D for the screens and then pays for and installs the equipment for manufacturing them at their supplier's site. They then have first dibs and best prices on the screens, which tends to everyone else going begging.

     

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