Coffeehouse Thread

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Questions for at //BUILD/ -- CH9 Live ?

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  • User profile image
    CKurt

    What questions would you like to see answered at BUILD next week? Maybe if Channel 9 Live would be there or someone from the C9 team they could ask around. The answers I'm waiting for.

    # How will the driver model work for ARM, and will we be able to install Windows onto self build ARM systems?

    # Can old applications (photoshop , skype) be included in the App Store and do they need to be in the AppX format?

    # Will we be able to 'not boot into Metro' by default?

    # What will te take to port applications from WP7 to Windows to Xbox?

  • User profile image
    SteveRichter

    Will a programmer have to register with Microsoft and pay a $99 annual fee to write an app for windows 8 and deploy it to their own PC? Will a fee have to be paid to deploy an app to someone else's PC?

     

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    #All this secrecy over the past 3 months has hurt developers(and even companies as a whole), and how they view Microsofts relationship with developers. How will Microsoft fix the Microsoft/developer relationship once the "//build secrets" are all out?

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    I reckon that MS is moving from a Company that 'actively looks after its devs' to one that is 'available to its devs' - there is a subtle difference - personally I don't think the damage will be addressed in any meaningful way at or post BUILD.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    I know about 20 developers that are repositioning themselves (including me that has already repositioned himself) to non Microsoft technologies, are you willing to admit that your plan that of taking visually imparied people to a strip club is analogous to the whole debacle about BUILD, and what do you intend to do to win people back?

    I do however agree with Ian, in that no Microsoft executives ever answer any questions that make them uncomfortable, and the system of just widthrawing contracts from failed marketing strategies from advertising conglomorates just does not work with a community as intelligent as the developer community is, they are dealing with some of the smartest people on the planet.

  • User profile image
    golnazal

    Great thread! Send more questions!

     

    Thanks,

    Golnaz (Ch9 Team)

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,vesuvius wrote

    I know about 20 developers that are repositioning themselves (including me that has already repositioned himself) to non Microsoft technologies, are you willing to admit that your plan that of taking visually imparied people to a strip club is analogous to the whole debacle about BUILD, and what do you intend to do to win people back?

    *snip*

    Why don't you suggest how Microsoft could win people back and ask if they'd be willing to do it? With the way you framed the question, I'd tell you to pi$$ off if, I were in the position to do so. It doesn't really sound like you're interested in getting won back. It appears that you're really just taking this as an opportunity to throw another drink at Microsoft's face as you walk out the door and close the door behind you forever.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @cbae: I have complained voiceferously for the last 4 or so months with not as much as an answer from Microsoft, and I now need to suggest what they can do to make me stay, on top of several thousand pounds that I have paid in licenses to them this year gone?

    I think you are forgetting who it is that pays Microsoft wages, and British companies like a lot of others pay 2 to 3 times as much as you do, times are hard and money is hard to come by, as someone that has developed exclusively for windows for the last decade, if they cannot see the reasons for exodus, then they are a greater company than I. Please be sure to check how long I have hung around in these forums.

     

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,vesuvius wrote

    @cbae: I have complained voiceferously for the last 4 or so months with not as much as an answer from Microsoft, and I now need to suggest what they can do to make me stay, on top of several thousand pounds that I have paid in licenses to them this year gone?

    I think you are forgetting who it is that pays Microsoft wages, and British companies like a lot of others pay 2 to 3 times as much as you do, times are hard and money is hard to come by, as someone that has developed exclusively for windows for the last decade, if they cannot see the reasons for exodus, then they are a greater company than I. Please be sure to check how long I have hung around in these forums.

    It was pretty clear from the get-go that Microsoft wasn't going to address any individual concerns until Build. Right or wrong, that was Microsoft's intent, and it was obvious that 4 months of vociferousness and threats to abandon Microsoft's developer ecosystem weren't going to cause Microsoft to change its plan. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft knows that it burned some bridges, perhaps a lot of them, over the past few months. They're now giving you an opportunity to tell them how they can win you back. They can't read your mind. If you think they need to grovel, give you free $hit for life, contractually promise never to pull this $hit again, and say "pretty please", then you need to let them know that.

    If you have no interest in going back to Microsoft development, go build your Java application or whatever and destroy your competitor's .NET solution in the marketplace. Taking one last swipe at Microsoft isn't going to do $hit. What's done is done.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Double

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Up till a few months ago, I would have never considered any other platform. Ever. I always felt secure in Microsoft and their technologies. I have not felt secure recently hence the decision I have taken. I also don't take swipes but say exactly what I think. I know Microsoft pretty well, but opportunities for heterogenous environments are becoming more common so I will explore them.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    What is the philosophy of Metro and how do you reconcile the old and new UI metaphors? Will we have a dual world or a seamless integration. And what about up and down and back and forth? It seems like Metro is very simplistic in some ways - you scroll on a horizontal plane, but you don't really navigate up and down or zoom in and out. Don't you worry about oversimplifying the UI, turning Windows into a Teletubbies interface a la Apple iOS instead of creating something truly new?

    Disclaimer: I think Metro is ideally suited for the phone and quite possibly tablets.

  • User profile image
    JuanZamudio

    Is there going to be a live event?, Usually Charles or Nic Fillingham create a thread asking for questions for the live events but at this point the only thing that is confirmed is the live streaming of the keynotes.

     

  • User profile image
    KDawg

    ,cbae wrote

    *snip*

    It was pretty clear from the get-go that Microsoft wasn't going to address any individual concerns until Build. Right or wrong, that was Microsoft's intent, and it was obvious that 4 months of vociferousness and threats to abandon Microsoft's developer ecosystem weren't going to cause Microsoft to change its plan. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft knows that it burned some bridges, perhaps a lot of them, over the past few months. They're now giving you an opportunity to tell them how they can win you back. They can't read your mind. If you think they need to grovel, give you free $hit for life, contractually promise never to pull this $hit again, and say "pretty please", then you need to let them know that.

    If you have no interest in going back to Microsoft development, go build your Java application or whatever and destroy your competitor's .NET solution in the marketplace. Taking one last swipe at Microsoft isn't going to do $hit. What's done is done.

    Microsoft really screwed the pooch on this one.  They didn't have to say much, but even if they said, "At BUILD, we think you'll be pretty pleased." rather than the message of "Windows8 apps are built with HTML/JS".  MS didn't need to be specific, but by saying something controversial and then nothing gave the impression that they were about to screw existing devs over.  In 1997 that was fine.  Devs had no where else to go.  In 2011 I have to convince devs to stay on Windows -- almost all devs are now getting Macs and beginning to focus on web/iOS/Android.

    In any case, this is what I want answered at BUILD:

    1) When is Windows 8 shipping?

    2) Can the old shell be made the default?

    3) What is the Windows Phone story post Mango/Tango?  Does it intersect Windows desktop?

    4) Can we get decent Windows tablet HW?

    5) Perf has been a killer with modern MS dev tools.  Can we get productive tools/frameworks that don't cripple machines?

    6) What is the Office story and Windows8/Metro? 

    7) What coming in VSNext?

  • User profile image
    aL_

    i hear he keynotes is beeing streamed live, but c9live? i dunno.. there arent many cracks in the ms wall of silence Tongue Out

    anyhoo, my only real wish is that they properly adress the .net/silverlight situation and clear up what their actual plans are. obviously nothing is getting killed or anything, but that something i really hope they explicitly adress, as it would remove alot of confusion among our [.net devs] customers and managers

    also, im hoping for some sort of news arould apps for xbox and that homebrew vapor-promise..

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    1. Background: I'm a CIO of a primarily Microsoft shop.We've migrated a lot of our VB6 apps to WPF and Silverlight at great cost and frustration over the past three years.We really hoped our investment in Silverlight would give us some reach to the web while providing the richness and complexity our applications need. This year we've also started projects developing LOB client apps on iOS and Android tablets and phones in order to lower costs and increase productivity (and with great success I might add). Many of our workers don't need Office and on the occation that they do a remote desktop session to a server farm would be fine. Now I'm told that like WinForms, Silverlight and WPF are being phased out; that Silverlight's reach is being curtailed in favor of web apps.Why should I continue building LOB apps using Microsoft technologies when my need for the Windows desktop, Office, et al is fleeting?
    2. What happens to Windows Phone when Windows 8 replaces it on phones? Related: what happens to Windows Phone applications? Will they be compatible or deprecated like WinMo applications were?
    3. What is the benefit of putting Window 8 on a phone? If the answer is so you can run Office and all of your productivity apps then they phone will be slow and have poor battery life; in order to maintain app compatibility much of Windows must remain intact. How do you explain this contradition?
    4. Is Microsoft planning to support developing for Android, iOS, and other platforms with its development tools and frameworks? If so please detail what platforms are being targeted and by what languages and frameworks?
    5. What are Microsoft's plans for WPF & Silverlight? Do Silverlight desktop apps replace WPF altogether? Will you continue to support and grow Silverlight on the web (including support for other OS's and browsers other than Microsoft's)?

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