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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Sounds to me you're just trying to make me out as a crazy troll. Nice try.

    I was just saying that VBA macros in the browser are hard to implement and would have lots of problems.

    You need to stop taking everything people say so personally.

    Also; for the record, I'm pretty sure I've never actually called you a troll, although you've accused me of doing so several times now.

    Anyway, I don't want another thread to get derailed. Let's get back on topic.

     

  • User profile image
    elmer

    I just upgraded to a 920, but I have no idea how to use it, I only bought it to look cool.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I was just saying that VBA macros in the browser are hard to implement and would have lots of problems.

    You need to stop taking everything people say so personally.

    Also; for the record, I'm pretty sure I've never actually called you a troll, although you've accused me of doing so several times now.

    Anyway, I don't want another thread to get derailed. Let's get back on topic.

    I'm not taking things personally. I'm just pointing out the ongoing "misunderstandings" that folks like kettch and yourself make in order to diminish the possibility that there is an issue in the first place. You can claim troll badging innocence all you want but it's pretty obvious you're willing to infer it. That's the same tact Fox News uses with their "Some People Say" technique. Honestly I could care less if you take a thread negative by skewing context but you certainly have to be willing to take what you give. So on to today's lesson...

    It was pretty clear that cheong wasn't talking about the desktop version of office nor some difference between them:

    cheong wrote

    Missed this thread...

    The problem I'm facing is that, in WP version of Office 2013, if the workbook contains VBA, all cells there will be automatically treated as read-only.

    The is known limitation in their FAQ section.

    Yet you responded as if he had:

    I corrected you in order to keep the issue on-topic:

    DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    I believe he was talking about the Windows Phone and Web editions and not the desktop products. WP & Web don't support macros.

    And instead of a post stating "oh yeah, my bad" you and kettch move on to my latter post:

    DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    I've built data collection spreadsheets in the past that contain macros but the macros were only used on the desktop after the data was collected. Fortunately the collectors were using laptops so there was no issue. Ideally some would have preferred a mobile device like a phone. In that case the spreadsheet would be read-only on the phone even though all the user needs to do is enter data. I hope they allow this someday for quick & dirty mobile data collection without having to split-up the spreadsheet into two workbooks. I'm curious how the Office mobile competitor apps handle this? If I have some time I'll run some tests.

    And "misunderstood" it as if I meant for the macros to be executable on the web and/or WP:

    kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Macros in a browser are a bad idea. Do you really want Word macro virii running amok in your browser? Do you want poorly written macros sucking battery and performance from your mobile device?

    Aside from that, there are insane technical problems in porting a very specific execution environment and object model to run in a browser and/or on a mobile device.

    If data collection is that important, then you need to use an app. Macros are probably the worst possible solution.

    evildictait​or wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: How would you expect web-browser-based Office apps to cope with VBA macros that do things like interact with the FileSystemObject, or do WScript.Shell.Exec("malware.exe") ?

    The only way I can see it working is insisting that users of the web-browser based Office app install an ActiveX component to run those VBA macros, but that sounds like it would be ( a) painful, (b) undermine a lot of the point of having an online product, (c) give Microsoft critics something different to complain about and (d) probably introduce all sorts of extra complexity, security problems and so on, all just so that VBA macros work in the web when you could instead just use Office 2013, connect to 365 and get the VBA macros through that instead.

    So there may be no more "misunderstandings" let me be clear:

    1. Macros, VBA, and the like only run the desktop.
    2. Macros, VBA, and the like are suspended on the WP and web versions but allow for data entry.
    3. Typically the macros I write are tied to shortcut keys and run on demand on the desktop version.
    4. I could care less if the WP and web version support macros

    Therefore in my case the issues you and kettch have brought up are out of scope and moot.

     

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    elmer

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Honestly I could care less if ...

  • User profile image
    Dirtbagg

    I'm thinking of upgrading to an 820, or would it be better to goto a 920.

     

    I know the 920 has a better camera, screen and more memory, but can you add memory to these?

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , Dirtbagg wrote

    but can you add memory to these?

    Nope. Personally, I wouldn't know what to do with the memory it has, but if you need more, you're out of luck.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @DeathByVisualStudio: I agree with you on this read only limitation. Because supporting macro and read only are two completely separate issues. WP doesn't know how to run macro doesn't mean it cannot keep those macro text code in the file, and still let the user to modify those data only cells. it is almost as if telling the user that the webform is no longer useable when people disable scripting, which doesn't make any sense at all.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @Dirtbagg: 920 has plenty of memory and it is best bang for the buck. Hack it is 100 bucks after contract and free wireless charging plate. There is no comparison.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    cheong

    , evildictait​or wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: How would you expect web-browser-based Office apps to cope with VBA macros that do things like interact with the FileSystemObject, or do WScript.Shell.Exec("malware.exe") ?

    The only way I can see it working is insisting that users of the web-browser based Office app install an ActiveX component to run those VBA macros, but that sounds like it would be ( a) painful, (b) undermine a lot of the point of having an online product, (c) give Microsoft critics something different to complain about and (d) probably introduce all sorts of extra complexity, security problems and so on, all just so that VBA macros work in the web when you could instead just use Office 2013, connect to 365 and get the VBA macros through that instead.

    That point is weak. In desktop version of Office you can always edit the spreadsheet with macros disabled (by not enabling it from the security bar). Why wouldn't WP version of office just assume macros are always disabled and allow us to edit the data?

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @evildictaitor:

    You should get a Windows Phone 8 and test it out yourself instead of under the impression. Because the topic is talking about Windows Phone 8's Read Only limitation on macro enabled workbook. Or at least actually go read the official FAQ from the poster who raised his concern.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    @magicalclick: NVM, turns out there's a variety of reasons why you might not be able to open a document on a WP:

    • You might not be able to edit a Microsoft Office document on your phone depending on what's in it or how it was last saved. Here are some of the more common things that make a document read-only on your phone.

      The file is:

      • Saved as an older type of Microsoft Office document, such as a Microsoft Word 97-2003 document (.doc), Microsoft Excel 97-2003 workbook (.xls), or Microsoft PowerPoint 97-2003 presentation (.ppt).
      • Digitally signed.
      • Marked as final.
      • Protected using rights management.
      • Protected with a password.
      • Protected with restricted editing rights.

      Microsoft Word documents are read-only if they have:

      • Track Changes enabled.
      • Frames.
      • Custom markup (custom XML, Structured Document Tags (SDT), or smart tags).
      • XML tags with unsupported values.

      Microsoft Excel workbooks are read-only if they have:

      • Functions that aren't supported on the phone. For info about which Excel functions are supported, see the Microsoft Support article about supported content in Excel Mobile.
      • Scenarios.
      • Data validation in one or more cells.
      • Array formulas.
      • Data tables.
      • Slicers.
      • Macros enabled.
      • Large column or row widths.
      • Formulas that contain links or references to other workbooks.
      • Formulas with structured references.
      • Formulas that contain references, content, or formatting beyond cell IV16384.
      • Formulas that are longer than 512 characters or have more than 30 arguments in them.
      • Tracked changes.
      • Dialog sheets.
      • XML markup that isn't formed correctly.
      • OLE objects or ActiveX controls.

      For Microsoft OneNote notebooks, you can't edit:

      • A page from a notebook that was sent as an email attachment.
      • A notebook that is shared on SkyDrive, a Microsoft SharePoint site, or a SharePoint Online site, and marked as read-only.
      • A notebook that has a corrupted page.

      For Microsoft PowerPoint presentations, you can only make certain types of edits on your phone. Some examples include editing text in a text box, adding or editing notes, changing the order of slides, or hiding slides. For more info about editing a PowerPoint presentation on your phone, see Use PowerPoint Mobile.

       

    • User profile image
      JoshRoss

      Although, I love me some macros, I fail to see how putting the necessary infrastructure required to make some of them work on a phone would be beneficial enough to justify the cost. Do I really want to open up an ADO recordset and do something painful on the phone? F-no! Remote Desktop Protocol meet Windows Phone, Windows Phone meet RDP, now kiss and make sweet business love over my already stretched thin data-plan.

      -Josh

    • User profile image
      evildictait​or

      , JoshRoss wrote

      now kiss and make sweet business love over my already stretched thin data-plan.

      Get your boss to pay for your dataplan Smiley

    • User profile image
      cheong

      @JoshRoss: With this reasoning you may tell Microsoft to not bother making Excel for WP, ExcelViewer for WP would have been good enough.

      But wait, we might as well just export the file as PDF and view it on a Windows Phone. In that case I could have uninstalled Office for WP and save a few GB of storage. Just install PDF viewer for WP which is 4MB in size would be enough.

      Is that what you want to tell us?

      Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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    • User profile image
      magicalclick

      @cheong: I know it can be frustrating, but, many of niners don't actually listen carefully. But the upside is, few of us are slowly catching on. There are few more niners understand your problem now.

      Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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    • User profile image
      kettch

      @cheong: Yeah, I misunderstood the issue here. I tend to glaze over when Death goes on a rant.

      I don't know what's involved in Office dealing with macros, but yes, the document should be editable in as many cases as possible. When a macro is detected, you would need to firmly warn the user that any behavior that relies on macros will be broken.

      There can be no VBA on the web or on mobile devices. It's too old and crusty, and the tools aren't any good. There would need to be some kind of superset to WinRT that Office documents could have access to, replacing VBA. The execution could be split into two parts. The "front end" could handle formulas and general editing. If you were running on a desktop, then the executable package could run locally, or could run on a server, much like Excel Services works today. On the web, this would continue to be the default execution method.

      I'm not certain how something like this would work on a mobile device. Maybe it would be a balance of the two, depending on what would be running.

    • User profile image
      fanbaby

      So, VBA is dying, which makes sense since the macro editor hasn't seen any changes and is a variant of the VB6 ide (BTW I used VB6, and is one fine piece of engineering, i'm not kidding! Also don't listen to all the COM detractors, it's a great technology, CORBA done right ). I have a few questions for you guys:

      1. What will replace it? DOTNET or JavaScript?
      2. How important is scripting to office?
      3. Where the heck is a website which is analogous to Access? Wink

      Sorry my comment raised so much commotion  Devil

    • User profile image
      kettch

      @fanbaby:

      My problem with macros in Office/Corel has always been the same: Nobody ever knows when to stop.

      One of my projects is to help in figuring out how to replace hundreds of WordPerfect macros that do nothing more than pop dialogs to walk people through filling out a form. Their initial solution was to port them to Word, and then write a Word add-in that parsed the document template for fields and did throw the same dialogs. That's a solution for <10 forms. More than that and you really should buy a forms product.

      Think about how many people go to an Excel or Access class, and the next thing you know they are running their business off of a flakey half baked amateur-hour ERP system. Maybe that works in some cases. It gets worse in an enterprise where there are all kinds of automation going on that should really be done somewhere else. However, it's all IT's fault when it breaks.

      As far as Access goes, there already is a website that does what Access does. You can upload an Access database to Office 365 and have it run as a web application. I know that's not quite what you meant, but I've never heard of a web application that let people build horridly crude and ugly abominations that are banned by the Geneva Conventions. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have vendors in certain vertical markets (medicine, law enforcement) who have made a fortune selling Access databases. Yeah, just because a retired doctor or cop can extrude an Access application with a better understanding of their business, doesn't make it ok for them to actually sell it.

      Office 2013 supports a HTML5/JavaScript based add-in model, and that's probably the way to go forward. Especially since it probably gives them the ability to enable these apps and automations to un in the browser in the future.

       

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