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Share of the Microsoft stack among top sites

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  • fanbaby

    A comment on another theard here: http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Channel-9-Live-at-MIX11-Ask-Your-Questions-Here-if-you-dont-want-to-use-Twitter, suggested that the only sites running IIS/ASP.NET on the top 25 are Microsoft's sites.

    Is that true? If true, what are .NET-ers thinking about it. And which big sites run on this stack? I know of Dell, and HP any others?

    I am asking on out of curiosity, i have nothing against ASP.NET or IIS as they are server-side (as most of you seen, as a staunch open stabdards supporter i do have an issue with Silverlight on public facing sites). Sorry for the spelling, Chrome's spell checker isn't working for this field.

  • W3bbo

    Well, MySpace transitioned from ColdFusion to ASP.NET sometime around 2005. But MySpace is fast becoming irrelevant.

    StackOverflow is one of the few fashionable websites that uses ASP.NET.

    But I imagine the top 25 websites (in terms of pageview traffic figures) tend to run some custom platform, very few of them run OTS systems. Facebook, for example, uses PHP, but not in the traditional sense. They use a precompiler.

    eBay uses a custom web server stack. Wikipedia is the only one I can think of actually.

    I'd like to mention that Dell and HP's websites are very difficult to negociate, there's no clear site layout (both visually and architectually). Apple gets it right, and Microsoft is slowly heading in the right direction, but I don't believe we'll ever see short, readable URLs from Dell.com in a while.

  • Bass

    There is a lot of smaller sites that do IIS. But most of the web (esp. larger sites) are running on a Linux stack.

  • fanbaby

    @W3bbo: yes, i forgot about stackoverflow. Very good and nimble. I's even say it's one of the best .net sites out there.

  • fanbaby

    @W3bbo: RE Dell's site, i disagree. Their order customization pages are rather good and quite complicated.

  • Setag_Yrneh

    @W3bbo:

    Facebook, for example, uses PHP, but not in the traditional sense. They use a precompiler.

    http://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/358/

    It's not a precompiler, it's a PHP->C++ transformer, the C++ is then compiled. It's not obscure and exclusive to Facebook, it's open source and on github. Anyone can use it.

    How HipHop Works

    The main challenge of the project was bridging the gap between PHP and C++. PHP is a scripting language with dynamic, weak typing. C++ is a compiled language with static typing. While PHP allows you to write magical dynamic features, most PHP is relatively straightforward. It's more likely that you see if (...) {...} else {..} than it is to see function foo($x) { include $x; }. This is where we gain in performance. Whenever possible our generated code uses static binding for functions and variables. We also use type inference to pick the most specific type possible for our variables and thus save memory.

    The transformation process includes three main steps:

        Static analysis where we collect information on who declares what and dependencies,
        Type inference where we choose the most specific type between C++ scalars, String, Array, classes, Object, and Variant, and
        Code generation which for the most part is a direct correspondence from PHP statements and expressions to C++ statements and expressions.

    https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php/

    Source code transformer from PHP to C++

    Well, MySpace transitioned from ColdFusion to ASP.NET sometime around 2005. But MySpace is fast becoming irrelevant.

    MySpace was originally written in Perl in 2003 by Duc Chau when he was one of the only engineers at ResponseBase LLC, which was a spam organization that started MySpace with eUniverse. His own social network Flukiest is still running today and it is all Perl.

    http://www.flukiest.com/

    MySpace was converted to ColdFusion when they leveraged the eUniverse dating platform that still runs vidilife today.

    http://vidilife.com/

    As we saw in the other thread, it's a popular misconception that eBay runs Microsoft technology for their edge servers.

    http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-4.1-doc/config/coyote.html

    They used to run IIS back years ago, but now run Apache Coyote in front of clustered Tomcat servers and a Java 2 app.

    You can always see what edge servers a website is running if they don't use a CDN like Akamai or Cloudfront by using Firebug. That won't tell you what tech they're pulling the image from, or the real application server. For that you need to ask somebody at the company. In the case of eBay it's easy since Coyote runs against Tomcat.

  • Bass

    Wow so eBay is a Tomcat app? That's pretty impressive for Tomcat. Smiley

  • Setag_Yrneh

    @Bass

    You can load balance anything with the right infrastructure. Tomcat is only shoddy when you configure it wrong or use old versions and refuse to update regularly due to being a lazy SOB IT person.

    http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/list/q-java+developer/c-ebay/l-sunnyvale,+ca

    eBay is a Java house. It always has been. They only used IIS for their edge servers years ago, and now they use Coyote.

    The top websites on the internet do not run Microsoft tech to serve pages or act as edge servers in a distributed setup. Microsoft's offerings are expensive, closed source, and hard to manage at a big company where you need totaly control over the infrastructure.

    Amazon did a really nice job with AWS, and the RDS, EC2, CloudFront, ect... services. AWS actually does power a lot of the Alexa's top 100. Companies that would have never had the resources to be in the top 100 are there because of AWS and distributed open platforms.

    This is a small sample of what happened at MySpace because of Microsoft on the server side.

    http://worstofmyspace.com/2006/02/13/mr-nutz-gallery-of-myspace-error-messages/

    This thread is extremely disturbing as it shows not only a stack trace of the error on a production server, but also shows the database credentials such as the MSSQL DB user.

    http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=20123738#post20123738

    http://mashable.com/2006/07/28/myspace-screws-up-again-accounts-being-deleted/

     

  • fanbaby

    @Setag_Yrneh

    1) I always thought ebay were a Microsoft house since they have xyz.dll in their urls Smiley

    2) RE Myspace problems circa 2006, i don't think you should read too much into them as you did, and shouldn;t jump into conclusions that it;s Microsoft's fault. I looks like amatur sysadmins, that's all.

  • Setag_Yrneh

    @fanbaby: You can set a handler for any type of extension on nginx, Tomcat or Apache. Like I wrote, back when they had IIS edge servers. Tomcat doesn't have to process uris that have .do, or .gen extensions.

    MySpace earned a reputation as a bad technology platform when they switch over to the BlueDragon servers in early 2006.

    http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm

    It helped to destroy them permanently in the course of the coming years. Their constant errors, and Rupert Murdoch made them the laughing stock of the social networking world.

     

    Yes, that's his wife that he put in charge of MySpace asia. I can only liken it to Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall. Except Marshall had the sense not to have her head a real company's global resources.

    Not a tech reference, but certainly a nice anecdotal reference to compliment the technical short comings.

    It's really sad but as soon as MySpace was acquired, Microsoft and it's partners used it as a financial resource to sell them every obscure technology and platform that they had. They were even stacking the Fox Media branch with MS execs. It was their NewsCorp cash cow.

    How were they ever going to go up? When your company becomes an unpaid resource for another's they could only go down. And they did. They crashed like a blimp.

    The good news is that now they get so little traffic, their .NET servers can finally handle the load.

    Also, to be complete, the last stages of the Microsoft invasion/destruction of MySpace was when they had MySpace buy iLike which was founded by Microsoft employees.

    http://www.gizmocrazed.com/2010/11/top-15-companies-founded-by-ex-employees-of-microsoft/

    http://mashable.com/2009/08/19/myspace-acquires-music-sharing-service-ilike/

    This was the coupe de kill for MySpace as it took 20M in budget out of the already failing Fox Media business. They had them acquired in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression.

    Shortly after they had to lay off 500 people.

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/business/MySpace-to-Layoff-Nearly-500-113293129.html

    While the Microsofties bathed in MySpace cash.

    In my humble opinion it was similar to the Microsoft/IBM relationship of OS/2 minus the IBM selling OS/2 part. Eventually Aber, the guy who made the testimonial above, like the others all bailed from the company when the party was over.

    Where is Microsoft now that the MySpace party is over?

  • cbae

    @Setag_Yrneh:

    You're looking at www.ebay.com subdomain.

    According to Netcraft, cgi.ebay.com is running Windows Server 2003. The cgi.ebay.com subdomain is used for the most important aspect of eBay--the listings.

     

  • cbae

    , Setag_Yrneh wrote

    @fanbaby: You can set a handler for any type of extension on nginx, Tomcat or Apache. Like I wrote, back when they had IIS edge servers. Tomcat doesn't have to process uris that have .do, or .gen extensions.

    MySpace earned a reputation as a bad technology platform when they switch over to the BlueDragon servers in early 2006.

    http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm

    It helped to destroy them permanently in the course of the coming years. Their constant errors, and Rupert Murdoch made them the laughing stock of the social networking world.

     

    Yes, that's his wife that he put in charge of MySpace asia. I can only liken it to Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall. Except Marshall had the sense not to have her head a real company's global resources.

    Not a tech reference, but certainly a nice anecdotal reference to compliment the technical short comings.

    It's really sad but as soon as MySpace was acquired, Microsoft and it's partners used it as a financial resource to sell them every obscure technology and platform that they had. They were even stacking the Fox Media branch with MS execs. It was their NewsCorp cash cow.

    How were they ever going to go up? When your company becomes an unpaid resource for another's they could only go down. And they did. They crashed like a blimp.

    The good news is that now they get so little traffic, their .NET servers can finally handle the load.

    Also, to be complete, the last stages of the Microsoft invasion/destruction of MySpace was when they had MySpace buy iLike which was founded by Microsoft employees.

    http://www.gizmocrazed.com/2010/11/top-15-companies-founded-by-ex-employees-of-microsoft/

    http://mashable.com/2009/08/19/myspace-acquires-music-sharing-service-ilike/

    This was the coupe de kill for MySpace as it took 20M in budget out of the already failing Fox Media business. They had them acquired in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression.

    Shortly after they had to lay off 500 people.

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/business/MySpace-to-Layoff-Nearly-500-113293129.html

    While the Microsofties bathed in MySpace cash.

    In my humble opinion it was similar to the Microsoft/IBM relationship of OS/2 minus the IBM selling OS/2 part. Eventually Aber, the guy who made the testimonial above, like the others all bailed from the company when the party was over.

    Where is Microsoft now that the MySpace party is over?

    Dude, take off the tin foil hat.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Dude, take off the tin foil hat.

    I dunno about that. Setag makes some pretty interesting points. What can't be proven is that this was some coodinated effort by Microsoft or just a series of unfortunate events. In any case Microsoft lost the opportunity to have a huge showcase customer for its technologies and now have an example competitors can use to show how Microsoft technologies fail (regardless if that is true or not). Hopefully Microsoft sees this as a big issue and will learn from these mistakes rather than write it off as somebody else's problem (like my academic friends in the development tools and languages groups seem to do IMO Wink )

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • ScanIAm

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    I dunno about that. Setag makes some pretty interesting points.

    And hitler built some nice roads.

    What can't be proven is ...

    ...pretty much every cause he listed. 

     

  • Cream​Filling512
  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , ScanIAm wrote

    *snip*

    And hitler built some nice roads.

    *snip*

    ...pretty much every cause he listed. 

     

    And like Microsoft you forgot the most important point:

    Microsoft lost the opportunity to have a huge showcase customer for its technologies and now have an example competitors can use to show how Microsoft technologies fail (regardless if that is true or not).

    It's easy to assume the best case senario. That's why they pay the big decision makers the big bucks; heads nicely burried in the sand. Smiley

  • Setag_Yrneh

    @ScanIAm: Look at the comments from the links I posted. The MySpace users themselves made them. Look at MySpace related posts archived on Digg.com

    They were a huge joke because of their software stack. It's one of the reasons Facebook pummeled them.

    Microsoft tries to work it's own employees into up and coming successful companies. When that didn't work with Facebook, they made a private investment in the company. FB was cash strapped and needed to expand so they took the money.

    Where is Channel9's Lenn Pryor now? He was a Microsoft anchor in Skype, now he is a Microsoft anchor at Facebook. Eventually the Microsofties got in.

  • Minh

    @ScanIAm, hey, do you remember Chris Rondot creating a adult-oriented MySpace-clone, then got a C&D letter from MySpace lol... I just realized why the MySpace + MS hate...

     

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