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Sinofsky: The more crapware, the better

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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Dr. Evil explains:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/03/making-windows-media-center-available-in-windows-8.aspx

    Just a reminder, if your PC has an optical drive when you buy it or when you buy a retail optical drive, it will almost certainly include DVD playback software and license (unless the drive is sold to be used only as a data drive).  There is little chance a mainstream retail PC is made available with optical drives that do not have the option of DVD playback.

    Who cares? Wasn't it once Microsoft's goal to reduce the amount of pre-installed bloatware? And now you need again pre-installed crapola to play a DVD? Just don't forget, we're talking about frigging DVDs here! As much as I bashed Sinofsky and Windows 8 on these forums, I never expected they will go as far and kill such basic functionality.

    Dr. Evil also forgets some user scenarios here, like, what if you want to do a clean upgrade from Win 7 to Win 8 and the PC maker didn't deliver any DVD playback software, since the codec was already available in Win 7.

    Anyway, what's next? Installing Winamp again for MP3s while we're at it?

  • User profile image
    fabian

    Can you even remember the last time you went to a shop, purhased a DVD movies, went home and put it in your computer?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Actually yes, that was six months ago. My DVD player was damaged.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @fabian:

    Another  statistics, oh great. Tell me the notepad usage on daily usage for the entire windows user base.

    Or tell me the percentage of time running task manager per session.

    or tell me the last time you enabled the red triangle light on your car.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    ...

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , wastingtimewithforums wrote

    *snip*

    Who cares? Wasn't it once Microsoft's goal to reduce the amount of pre-installed bloatware?

    *snip*

    The goal is also to get Windows 8 on as many machines as possible. If removal of the feature reduces the licensing cost for 90% of the install base, which doesn't give rat's * about DVD playback capability, then it's a move that most people should be supporting especially since it reduces Microsoft's own bloat, which isn't without a considerable amount of criticism in it's own right. The other 10% can still purchase the capability or find free options.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    The goal is also to get Windows 8 on as many machines as possible. If removal of the feature reduces the licensing cost for 90% of the install base, which doesn't give rat's * about DVD playback capability, then it's a move that most people should be supporting especially since it reduces Microsoft's own bloat, which isn't without a considerable amount of criticism in it's own right. The other 10% can still purchase the capability or find free options.

    It reduces it for Microsoft, not for us. I don't see them lowering the price vs Win7.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    , DCMonkey wrote

    *snip*

    It reduces it for Microsoft, not for us. I don't see them lowering the price vs Win7.

    I really enjoy reading the balanced, considered and unbiased posts by cbae, that are an apotheosis for the word proclivity. If he has shares, then fair enough, or possibly intending to apply for work there.

     

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , DCMonkey wrote

    *snip*

    It reduces it for Microsoft, not for us. I don't see them lowering the price vs Win7.

    If they don't raise the prices because they didn't incur a license fee of their own, then they're essentially lowering the prices vs what they would have priced Windows 8 in the first place.

    Whether they price Windows 8 higher or lower compared to Windows 7 is irrelevant to the discussion.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , vesuvius wrote

    *snip*

    I really enjoy reading the balanced, considered and unbiased posts by cbae, that are an apotheosis for the word proclivity. If he has shares, then fair enough, or possibly intending to apply for work there.

    Go play with your iPad. Smiley

    For the record, I own both MSFT and AAPL.

    And if I actually wanted to work there, I'd already be working there.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , DCMonkey wrote

    *snip*

    It reduces it for Microsoft, not for us. I don't see them lowering the price vs Win7.

    They've announced pricing? Because I've seen nothing yet.

    In any case, it's the OEM's driving this, because they'd still end up having to pay licensing fees on devices that ship with DVD playback capabilities. Even for something like a tablet with no internal drive that pretty much nobody was ever going to try and watch a DVD on, which is daft.

    Heck, there are ATMs and those pub gaming machines in existence right now that have to have DVD playback licenses because they're built on Windows. If you don't see the absurdity in that, I'm not sure what else could ever persuade you.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , AndyC wrote

    Heck, there are ATMs and those pub gaming machines in existence right now that have to have DVD playback licenses because they're built on Windows. If you don't see the absurdity in that, I'm not sure what else could ever persuade you.

    They should be using Windows Embedded.

  • User profile image
    daSmirnov

    Normally I'd be outraged.  I don't like features being cut, and I don't like having the crap kind of DVD player software we had to put up with in the past being on my computer.

    But I'm trying to think of the last time I used a DVD or Blu-ray (yes I have a Blu-ray drive, seemed a good idea at the time I guess) in my computer.

    Two, maybe three years?

    Thinking about it, I'm not surprised, might as well cut the costs, as long as its passed along to the consumer of course.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    @ZippyV: Possibly. They don't though. And I really don't think that'll be something that ever really changes. There's a lot of additional knowledge required to build a Windows Embedded setup and for 90% of dev shops it just works out a lot easier to stick the full Windows environment they already understand.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Seems a FAQ is in order...

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/04/q-amp-a-dvd-playback-and-windows-media-center-in-windows-8.aspx

    C

    PS: Please refrain from calling people names (a la Steven as "Dr. Evil"). Or, do so somewhere else - not on Channel 9... See our Code of Conduct and C9 Doctrine for more info on how to behave on these forums.... Thanks.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , fabian wrote

    Can you even remember the last time you went to a shop, purhased a DVD movies, went home and put it in your computer?

    If amazon.co.uk counts as a shop fairly frequently. I like DVDs - they're quality is more conistent than VHS was and I like the feeling of owning something physical. Specifically I like being able to watch it as much as I like without having to keep paying for it (or keep paying for a streaming subscription, or have a copy of it 10 years time when for some rights issue it gets deleted from all the (legal) servers on teh internets. I like not needing internet access to watch it. I like that it's effectively DRM free (or rather that the DRM can be easily stripped) so I can rip it and watch it on my iDevice/phone/ultraportable and I can store them on my hdd to save space/for convenience if needs be but keep the originals in the loft as back up.

    And all the "normal" people I know still buy DVDs. A lack of alternative sources to buy downloads from doesn't help (and I'm not sure that any of the streaming services have particularly complete catalogues yet). And I don't think there's much cost between a download and a DVD.

    Sinofsky wrote:

    What if I upgrade to Windows 8 on my current Windows 7 PC with a DVD drive?
    If there is existing third-party playback software the Windows Upgrade Assistant will help determine if this software is compatible with Windows 8 and you will have the option to keep it during the upgrade to Windows 8. Otherwise, you will need to acquire third-party playback software after the upgrade to play DVDs. Alternatively, you can acquire the Windows 8 Media Center Pack or the Windows 8 Pro Pack post upgrade. Both Packs include Windows Media Center, including the ability to play DVDs.

    Hang on. I've already paid for the cost of the codec in my Windows Vista/7 license right? Why should I have to pay it again?

    Sinofsky wrote:

    What is the Windows 8 Pro Pack and why does it include Media Center?
    Windows 8 Pro Pack is an upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 8 Pro. Like we described above, Media Center is only available on Windows 8 Pro. When you acquire the Pro Pack, we make it a single step that takes you to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center. The cost of the Media Center Pack is essentially built into Pro Pack. Again, this is an attempt to add simplicity to the process of acquiring Media Center.

     

    Microsoft just don't get it do they. Years of lampooing about Windows Vista Ultimate Live Lite Enterprise Extra Mega Edition and the produce this:

    Windows 8 Professional Edition with Windows Media Centre.

    Congratulations. Really, congratulations. Now fire your entire branding staff. 

     

     

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    More games by Sinofsky....

    In all cases, there are numerous complete third-party applications that provide a broad range of support that is properly licensed.

    IOW crapware may be preinstalled by the OEM that supports DVD playback. One of the divisions at the company I work for produces computer based training. Much of the content is still sold on DVD even though it's also available on-line. Going forward we have no guarantee that a W8 PC equipped with a DVD will be able to playback the content on our DVDs. Furthermore we now have to support the vast array of crapware DVD players out there rather than having a standard (WMP).

    Based on the above discussion, it should be clear that we cannot enable DVD playback all the time in Windows Media Player.

    IOW, in case it hasn't registered with you yet you fool, we have decided DVD is dead along with WMP and thus will not ship the full WMP experience found in W7 but instead will purposely gimp WMP in order to serve our agenda (to be like Apple).

    With this attitude unless W8 is a huge hit (and not be default because it's shipped on every PC) Microsoft is going to find itself on the Island of Misfit Toys except without any friends. I'm so glad I don't work there. It's gotta be down-right embarrasing.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    Personally I have/like DVDs and watch them on my computer, which is actually my only disc player (I don't have a dedicated DVD/Blu-Ray player or even a TV for that matter). OTOH I'll probably just download VLC or something so it won't be a big deal in the end.

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