Coffeehouse Thread

67 posts

Conversation Locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.

Sinofsky: The more crapware, the better

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    01001001

    AFAIK DVD Player is still in OS X Mountain Lion with no plans to take it out.

    Pop a DVD in a Mac and it just works. Not the special edition OS X, just the regular one.

    With that said, most people use either iTunes, Amazon on Demand, Vudu, or PSN to rent movies. Still, Mac does media way better, and as much as Steven wants to copy Apple, he's not willing to go the last 10%, just like Bill Gates wasn't on Windows 1.0. Unfortunately it's no longer 1985 and people can tell the difference now.

    Enjoy your corner cutting masterpiece.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , 01001001 wrote

    AFAIK DVD Player is still in OS X Mountain Lion with no plans to take it out.

    Pop a DVD in a Mac and it just works. Not the special edition OS X, just the regular one.

    With that said, most people use either iTunes, Amazon on Demand, Vudu, or PSN to rent movies. Still, Mac does media way better, and as much as Steven wants to copy Apple, he's not willing to go the last 10%, just like Bill Gates wasn't on Windows 1.0. Unfortunately it's no longer 1985 and people can tell the difference now.

    Enjoy your corner cutting masterpiece.

    Like it really matters. Apple's pretty much taken the DVD drive out of all of their notebooks. The 3 people who bought their Mac Pro desktop will certainly enjoy playing DVDs on their computers.

  • User profile image
    01001001

    @cbae:

    Apple's pretty much taken the DVD drive out of all of their notebooks. The 3 people who bought their Mac Pro desktop will certainly enjoy playing DVDs on their computers.

    Fiction. My Macbook Pro has a DVD drive, I used it today to play a DVD. The newest Macbook Pros all have DVD-R super drives:

    http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features.html#dvds

    Only the cheapo Macbook Air netbooks don't have DVD drives.

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    ... cheapo Macbook Air netbooks ...

    Cheapo? netbook?

  • User profile image
    01001001

    @JoshRoss:

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/macbook-air-11-inch-what-a-netbook-should-look-like/41476

    The tech press pretty much calls the Air a netbook at every turn, mainly because it is a netbook.

    Microsoft is calling it a netbook here as well in the specs comparison:

    ( and they're comparing iLife to Windows Live, except Live no longer exists LOL )

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/compare/pc-vs-mac/do-the-math?macCode=002

    It's also much cheaper than the Macbook Pro. One of my coworkers that I hadn't seen in years last year came in with an Air and he was making all sorts of comments about how the Air isn't so bad. In reality he felt it was inferior to the Macbook Pros that I and other coworkers had.

    I have both an i7 Vaio similar to Dan Fernandez's and a Macbook Pro and the Macbook Pro blows it away.

    I now manage code on a .NET app and every time I launch a VirtualBox with Windows Server and run VS2010 all 8 cores of the Vaio face plant when I mount the drive on the host system to edit the IIS website files. This is after I kill every single unnecessary process in taskmanager. That's with all the hypervisor options enabled in the BIOS ect.. and everything optimized, and only a few rows of data in MSSQL just to develop with.

    It's depressing to develop for Windows, even with the nicest Windows laptop money can buy.

    Sinofsky is just making excuses to charge people more money, because he wants to make investors and Bill Gates happy. That's pretty obvious. 

  • User profile image
    Bass

    It makes sense. Did you guys ever take a look at the license fees for the relatively ancient MPEG2 codec? They are very high (IIRC $3.00 per software unit sold with no cap). H.264, Motorola lawsuit aside is a bargain in comparison. There are also license fees associated with licensing the slightly better than ROT13 encryption DRM that some DVDs have. This fees can easily amount to a billion dollars for a company with as much gross sales as Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , 01001001 wrote

    @cbae:

    *snip*

    Fiction. My Macbook Pro has a DVD drive, I used it today to play a DVD. The newest Macbook Pros all have DVD-R super drives:

    http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features.html#dvds

    Only the cheapo Macbook Air netbooks don't have DVD drives.

    With all the i7 Ultrabooks coming out that are about as powerful as Macbook Pros, Apple is going to try to out-thin the PC makers. Just watch.

    http://www.cultofmac.com/164117/the-case-for-a-macbook-pro-without-an-optical-drive/

  • User profile image
    01001001

    @cbae:

    The Case For A MacBook Pro Without An Optical Drive

    Wahhh.... LOL, there are like 10 billion bloggers that constantly tell Apple what they should do. That doesn't mean anything.

    I have been all but paralyzed because Apple won't release the updated Mac Pro, and I don't want to invest in the over 2 year old current model that you can't even hook up a Thunderbolt monitor to.

    "The case for Apple to just fvcking release the new Mac Pro"

    That's just as if probably not more compelling.

    Just because one guy says Apple should remove the DVD, doesn't mean they will. I mean, lots of OS X software still comes on DVD, like Toast Titanium.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , GoddersUK wrote

    *snip*

    And all the "normal" people I know still buy DVDs. A lack of alternative sources to buy downloads from doesn't help (and I'm not sure that any of the streaming services have particularly complete catalogues yet). And I don't think there's much cost between a download and a DVD.

    Yes, you buy DVDs, as do I. You missed the more important part of the question though, when did you last watch it on a PC as opposed to just using a DVD player?

    *snip*

    Hang on. I've already paid for the cost of the codec in my Windows Vista/7 license right? Why should I have to pay it again?

    Microsoft did a special deal with Dolby so that they could pay the license fee for certain codecs in place of the OEM, which was pretty much a necessity so that they could sell  Windows in a sane fashion. However that agreement only covered Windows 7 and is invalidated by an upgrade. Remember the license is to "the device" and not the end user, otherwise the fact you own a DVD player could make all this discussion redundant.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    WMP is a terrible DVD player anyway.  That's why I don't use Windows to watch weekly Netflix rentals. Besides, WMP is more suitable to play BT DVD backups, I suppose that's its sole purpose now. 

    I think my main concern is, is it a slippery slope? I mean how many more are they going to cut ?  or more specifically, how many more are they going to cut that will affect me? Cutting things are necessary, but, at what cost?

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , AndyC wrote

    *snip*

    Yes, you buy DVDs, as do I. You missed the more important part of the question though, when did you last watch it on a PC as opposed to just using a DVD player?

    Seeing as I don't own a DVD player, only a computer, all the time actually. And that is true for 99% of my peer group (students). One device to rule them all, one device to find them, one device to bring them all and in the darkness bind them - the PC (or Mac). 

     

    Microsoft did a special deal with Dolby so that they could pay the license fee for certain codecs in place of the OEM, which was pretty much a necessity so that they could sell  Windows in a sane fashion. However that agreement only covered Windows 7 and is invalidated by an upgrade. Remember the license is to "the device" and not the end user, otherwise the fact you own a DVD player could make all this discussion redundant.

    If I upgrade my OS my device hasn't changed... 

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , DeathByVisualStudio wrote

    One of the divisions at the company I work for produces computer based training. Much of the content is still sold on DVD even though it's also available on-line. Going forward we have no guarantee that a W8 PC equipped with a DVD will be able to playback the content on our DVDs. Furthermore we now have to support the vast array of crapware DVD players out there rather than having a standard (WMP).

    If your DVDs conform to the standard they should play on all DVD players/software, right?

     

    , contextfree` wrote

    OTOH I'll probably just download VLC or something so it won't be a big deal in the end.

    Which may be technically illegal since it uses decss (although, according to wiki, the one case that came to trial over decss resulted in an aquital)... 

    But yes, I don't see how this will help anyone. Users will just use VLC/decss and not pay the license fee, so the DVD industry loses money; MS's OS will be crippled and open the door to Apple ads about PCs not playing DVDs and general ridicule and the consumer has to go to extra effort to play their discs. 

  • User profile image
    Escamillo

    @1001001:

    , 01001001 wrote

    AFAIK DVD Player is still in OS X Mountain Lion with no plans to take it out.

    Pop a DVD in a Mac and it just works. Not the special edition OS X, just the regular one.

    With that said, most people use either iTunes, Amazon on Demand, Vudu, or PSN to rent movies. Still, Mac does media way better, and as much as Steven wants to copy Apple, he's not willing to go the last 10%, just like Bill Gates wasn't on Windows 1.0. Unfortunately it's no longer 1985 and people can tell the difference now.

    Enjoy your corner cutting masterpiece.

    The OSX DVD player is a piece of garbage, though.  It hasn't been updated in 10 years and is very much like the 3rd-party DVD players for XP, the ones that folks are suddenly decrying as unacceptable.  Well, OSX DVD player is exactly like those.  Except even worse, what with the mimicing of a physical DVD player controller and whatnot.  So those of you saying that using a 3rd party DVD player bundled by the OEM for Windows 8 is horrible, well it's no more horrible than the DVD player that Apple bundles with OSX.

  • User profile image
    Escamillo

    @GoddersUK:

    , GoddersUK wrote

    *snip*

    If your DVDs conform to the standard they should play on all DVD players/software, right?

     

    *snip*

    Which may be technically illegal since it uses decss (although, according to wiki, the one case that came to trial over decss resulted in an aquital)... 

    But yes, I don't see how this will help anyone. Users will just use VLC/decss and not pay the license fee, so the DVD industry loses money; MS's OS will be crippled and open the door to Apple ads about PCs not playing DVDs and general ridicule and the consumer has to go to extra effort to play their discs. 

    Wow, you guys are so scared of Apple.  Apple removed floppy discs and didn't worry about ads saying "OMG, Macs can't read floppy discs!!".  Apple removed optical drives altogether from MacBook Airs, its #1 laptop seller, and didn't worry about "OMG, MacBook Airs can't read optical discs!!!" ads.

    Besides that, what's it matter anyway?  I recall the Apple "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ad that claimed that PCs couldn't import pictures taken by Japanese digital cameras.  Totally false, but it didn't stop Apple from running the ad anyway.  Apple's going to run whatever ads they want to run regardless.  Competitors should stop cowering in their boots about what Apple's going to do.

    Lastly, Apple's main product isn't the Mac, and you don't see many Mac ads anymore.  Their main product is iPad/iPhone, which can't play DVDs (and can't to a whole LOT of stuff, but you don't see Apple scared to ship the product worrying about ads against the things that iPad cannot do).

  • User profile image
    Escamillo

    , magicalclick wrote

    WMP is a terrible DVD player anyway.  That's why I don't use Windows to watch weekly Netflix rentals. Besides, WMP is more suitable to play BT DVD backups, I suppose that's its sole purpose now. 

    I think my main concern is, is it a slippery slope? I mean how many more are they going to cut ?  or more specifically, how many more are they going to cut that will affect me? Cutting things are necessary, but, at what cost?

    I dont' think many folks use WMP to play DVDs.  IT does suck (though not as bad as OSX's DVD player).  WMC, however, does not suck at playing DVDs.  But few use WMC at all.  But there are those that swear by WMC and think that it's vital to their user experience, but I'd think that they'd be willing to pay $10 or whatever to download WMC if it's that necessary to them.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , Escamillo wrote

    *snip*

     IT does suck

    Explain, if you will, how the left sucks more than the right.

    Generic Forum Image

     

    WMPs UI wins hands down (although the disc data it downloaded off the web was a bit confused... that was a DVD, not a blue ray). I couldn't notice any difference in playback quality (although I'm not usually very sensitive to such issues anyway) however I may not be using the default codec in WMP so that statement may be irrelevant.

    Oh and WMP never gives me annoying popups asking me to register... 

     

     

  • User profile image
    Escamillo

    , GoddersUK wrote

    *snip*

    Explain, if you will, how the left sucks more than the right.

    Generic Forum Image

     

    WMPs UI wins hands down (although the disc data it downloaded off the web was a bit confused... that was a DVD, not a blue ray). I couldn't notice any difference in playback quality (although I'm not usually very sensitive to such issues anyway) however I may not be using the default codec in WMP so that statement may be irrelevant.

    Oh and WMP never gives me annoying popups asking me to register... 

     

     

    PowerDVD sucks too. Smiley

    My opinion on WMP sucking as a DVD player (I don't think it sucks as a general video/audio player), is that in the past I found that for certain DVDs WMP wouldn't allow me to freely move the seek pointer so I had to use the forward/backward buttons, while other players allowed me to freely seek for those particular DVDs.

    But note that comment to which you responded was more saying that WMP sucked as a DVD player compared to WMC (though I think WMC probably has the same seeking behavior). 

    I'm more irritated by above posts praising OSX's DVD playing experience, when OSX's DVD player is garbage, akin to Power DVD.  Above it's claimed that an OEM bundling PowerDVD (or some other 2rd party DVD player) would drive a customer to OSX, as if the DVD player that Apple bundles is so much better tha PowerDVD.  It ain't.  It sucks bad, and has for 10+ years.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , Escamillo wrote

    *snip*

    PowerDVD sucks too. Smiley

    My opinion on WMP sucking as a DVD player (I don't think it sucks as a general video/audio player), is that in the past I found that for certain DVDs WMP wouldn't allow me to freely move the seek pointer so I had to use the forward/backward buttons, while other players allowed me to freely seek for those particular DVDs.

    Weird.

     On a related note, I find the seek can sometimes lag for audio files (appreciable delay of several seconds between moving the seek the track moving) yet for DVDs it does so instantly. Never figure that one out... 

     

    But note that comment to which you responded was more saying that WMP sucked as a DVD player compared to WMC (though I think WMC probably has the same seeking behavior). 

    Well they have somewhat different usage scenarios. I use the same PC for work/entertainment/everything else. It seems a bit pointless to fire up WMC when sat at my desk...

     

    I'm more irritated by above posts praising OSX's DVD playing experience, when OSX's DVD player is garbage, akin to Power DVD.  Above it's claimed that an OEM bundling PowerDVD (or some other 2rd party DVD player) would drive a customer to OSX, as if the DVD player that Apple bundles is so much better tha PowerDVD.  It ain't.  It sucks bad, and has for 10+ years.

    I've never used it, but I'm sure its garbage that "just works". I expect it never asks you to register or pay for the upgrade. Or accidentally gets removed when cleaning out the crapware the OEM left behind. And it eliminates the problem of the OEM not bundling the software. If you buy a Mac you will be able to turn it on, put a DVD in and watch it, even if the default DVD player sucks. With Windows, no longer - that's the issue.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.