Coffeehouse Thread

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Skype

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  • FuncOfT

    This is not MS bashing - but it is Skype bashing.  The stupid video ads, questionably NSFW, btw, are ridiculous and completely out of my demographic - ads with a bunch of teenagers partying and crap.  WTF.  Horrible.

  • Harlequin

    Live Messenger is being deprecated so I put on the Skype for Desktop application. Really not a fan of it. The UI just seems like something from 2004. But....stuck with it I guess...

  • swheaties

    I recently wrote in another post that we are gradually being conditioned to accept continued incurrsions by advertisers into our private lives. 

    Let me make sure I understand you, FuncOfT - You complaint is not that you are being annoyed by advertising, but rather that the advertiser has not not collected sufficient information about you to target the ad to your demographic?  Is that correct?

     

  • wkempf

    "If you don't pay for it, you are the product." No one is being conditioned to accept continued incursions. Advertising is a necessary alternative to paid services. Always has been, and always will be. No, what's changing is that we, as customers, are becoming less willing to actually pay for anything. As such, we're getting what we've asked for.

  • evildictait​or

    , wkempf wrote

    "If you don't pay for it, you are the product." No one is being conditioned to accept continued incursions. Advertising is a necessary alternative to paid services. Always has been, and always will be. No, what's changing is that we, as customers, are becoming less willing to actually pay for anything. As such, we're getting what we've asked for.

    I remember in the olden days when people paid for stuff they were "the customer is always right", and you were treated with respect because you might buy something from the store.

    We seem to have sleepwalked into a world where people believe paying for services and content online is abnormal.

    In capitalism, you get what you pay for. If you're not paying, you're either getting a crap product or you are the product.

    Skype would be better if it cost you $1 a month to run, because then Microsoft would have a way of making money from it without wasting your time with adverts.

  • wkempf

    @evildictaitor: Skype has a freemium model. You can pay $4.99* a month and get more features and no advertising.

    * $4.99 based on a 12 month subscription. Normally $9.99 per month 

  • Deactivated User

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  • FuncOfT

    , swheaties wrote

    I recently wrote in another post that we are gradually being conditioned to accept continued incurrsions by advertisers into our private lives. 

    Let me make sure I understand you, FuncOfT - You complaint is not that you are being annoyed by advertising, but rather that the advertiser has not not collected sufficient information about you to target the ad to your demographic?  Is that correct?

     

    The advertising can be quite annoying, but it's bearable if it's something that is remotely interesting to you, so yeah, getting the correct demographic is important.  MS and Skype should be smart enough to know that the ads they are serving are borderline offensive to me.  If it was an ad for the new JetBrains product or something I wouldn't complain.  The video ad in Skype is also much larger and in your face than the Messenger ads ever were.  The issue in particular with something like Skype now is that we are all going to be forced to move to Skype, and I believe that fundamentally, this kind of application should and can be built into the OS.  If that means the price of the OS is $10 more per license, I'd pay for that.  I don't like the idea of having a ton of annual subscriptions to track, so I'd much rather pay a few hundred bucks ever few years for the latest OS and let MS deal with paying the people that built the application. 

    I don't mind paying for something like Skype, if I were going to use it, but I don't use it much at all.  I just use it for instant messaging and actually have only ever used Skype 3-5 times in my life for calling someone.  I may not be the norm, but the point is that I am almost forced to pay for the "premium" version to avoid the ads when I don't really need the premium services.  Some do, and that's great, it's not a bad deal if you aren't already paying through the nose for your cellular services and so on, but I really feel like choice has been taken away from me, not given to me.  Even if it's an illusion of choice, like, if they gave me a way to say, "this ad sucks", like Hulu does, at least I could bear some of the ads.  At this point, Skype, to me, is the worst adware I've ever used.

  • evildictait​or

    @FuncOfT:

    If everything that someone was "willing to pay $10 for to have bundled in Windows" was in Windows, it would be 150GB installation, slow as a dead parrot and cost $900 per licence, and you'd be complaining that you don't use most of the inbuilt "features".

  • FuncOfT

    , evildictait​or wrote

    @FuncOfT:

    If everything that someone was "willing to pay $10 for to have bundled in Windows" was in Windows, it would be 150GB installation, slow as a dead parrot and cost $900 per licence, and you'd be complaining that you don't use most of the inbuilt "features".

    Context - this kind of application, IM in particular (not interested in Skype for calls right now), which is as necessary as email to many people for work. 

  • evildictait​or

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    Context - this kind of application, IM in particular (not interested in Skype for calls right now), which is as necessary as email to many people for work. 

    Perhaps they should bundle Outlook as well (they used to bundle OE)? And Office (like they do on RT). Lots of people use that to work. Let's also bundle DVD codecs since lots of people use those, and BluRay, just in case they end up with a BluRay player.

    Oh, and a better photo-editing suite, since Paint is pretty rubbish and lots of people take photos.

    And OCR software - that's pretty useful too. And you'll probably want to bundle VLC for the off-chance that you see a video that you can't play, and probably Wireshark because it's more powerful than netstat.

    Oh wait -  now Windows costs you $100 instead of $40.

    Instead, why not let people pay $40 for the bare minimum OS, and let them spend $60 tailoring their OS to their specific needs by letting them buy the software they actually want from the Windows store?

     

  • FuncOfT

    @evildictaitor:  Some of those, yes.  DVD codecs, for sure!  How about you pay $100, and get $60 in Windows Store credits to buy what you need. 

  • evildictait​or

    , FuncOfT wrote

    @evildictaitor:  Some of those, yes.  DVD codecs, for sure!  How about you pay $100, and get $60 in Windows Store credits to buy what you need. 

    If you get $60 back in store credit, then you're only actually paying $40 - but you want Microsoft to include more than $40 of stuff. Capitalism doesn't work like that.

    Your choice is between:

    * A minimal build for $40 - buy what you want from the store yourself

    * A "fat" build with loads of added stuff like Skype, Office, codecs etc that you might not want for $100, $0 store credit.

    * A minimal build for $100 with $60 store credit

    * A "fat" build for $160 with $60 store credit.

    If Windows costs $160 instead of $40, then your Windows devices all cost $100 more and suddenly Microsoft are putting off lots of people who don't have loads of money to blow and would prefer a cheaper (e.g. Android) device instead - and besides, why force people to have stuff on their machine that is only going to get in the way? That's entirely contrary to the "slim and fast" image that Microsoft are trying to push with Win8.

    It seems to me that the best (and most consumer-friendly) approach is to aggressively push down the cost of the base platform by bundling nothing and let customers spend money in the Windows Store for stuff they might need but which most customers don't need (like Skype, Office, OCR software etc).

    Win8 + Windows Store gives you the perfect solution - you get to decide how expensive your initial Win8 setup is by adding extra software (e.g. Skype) from the Windows Store and paying for it after you buy your Win8 licence or device, and unlike any other solution - your device's expense and initial tools are entirely customized to your unique situation! Yay for customer choice!

  • swheaties

    wkemph, If you keep trying one day you are going to get something right.  I'm rooting for you buddy Angel  The incursion is not advertising itself, rather the invasive gathering of personal information, the extent of which I wont detail because I have neither the time nor patience to do so.  Why do I have to explain that to you LOL.

    Having said that, I will explicity say here that the sheer volume of advertising we see in the world has itself has become an incursion.  This is a different statement than what I said in my original post.  I am including all forms of media including the sides of buses and buildings, etc.

  • FuncOfT

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    If you get $60 back in store credit, then you're only actually paying $40 - but you want Microsoft to include more than $40 of stuff. Capitalism doesn't work like that.

    Your choice is between:

    * A minimal build for $40 - buy what you want from the store yourself

    * A "fat" build with loads of added stuff like Skype, Office, codecs etc that you might not want for $100, $0 store credit.

    * A minimal build for $100 with $60 store credit

    * A "fat" build for $160 with $60 store credit.

    If Windows costs $160 instead of $40, then your Windows devices all cost $100 more and suddenly Microsoft are putting off lots of people who don't have loads of money to blow and would prefer a cheaper (e.g. Android) device instead - and besides, why force people to have stuff on their machine that is only going to get in the way? That's entirely contrary to the "slim and fast" image that Microsoft are trying to push with Win8.

    It seems to me that the best (and most consumer-friendly) approach is to aggressively push down the cost of the base platform by bundling nothing and let customers spend money in the Windows Store for stuff they might need but which most customers don't need (like Skype, Office, OCR software etc).

    Win8 + Windows Store gives you the perfect solution - you get to decide how expensive your initial Win8 setup is by adding extra software (e.g. Skype) from the Windows Store and paying for it after you buy your Win8 licence or device, and unlike any other solution - your device's expense and initial tools are entirely customized to your unique situation! Yay for customer choice!

    " you get $60 back in store credit, then you're only actually paying $40 - but you want Microsoft to include more than $40 of stuff. Capitalism doesn't work like that." 

    What??  The notion was, don't include all those extra Apps then, but by giving some amount in store credit then you allow people to "customize" Windows (and have the side-effect of promoting Windows Store Apps that people may not normally be willing to pay for, but if they have some credit/coupons to spend, they might be more willing), so I wouldn't be expecting MS to include more than $40 in that case ... it was just a thought to find a happy medium, and has nothing to do with capitalism, so stop going way off tangent, how is it anti-capitalist to give out coupons and credits and gift certificates to help sell a product?  Terrible, in your face, irrelevant ads are what I'm complaining about, (and the forced upgrade coming to Messenger users). 

    I was wrong about a fact here that I will correct:  Skype does have a "Like or dislike this ad?" feedback link, which I didn't notice until a minute ago, however, clicking on it brings me to a page to sign in ... WTF do I have to sign in, I'm signed into Skype.  Make it easier to give feedback, please.  With the Windows Store App version, it's very simple to give feedback.  I love the way MS incorporates Feedback and Ratings into the charms for every Windows Store App; this feature may pan out to be one of the most important for the overall future of Windows 8.

  • Bass

    , FuncOfT wrote

    This is not MS bashing - but it is Skype bashing.

    Just a friendly reminder. Skype bashing is in fact Microsoft bashing, since Skype is a part of Microsoft. Smiley

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    I sure hope Microsoft is a little more broad-minded when it comes to how to monetize things like Skype and what to bundle with and how to price Windows, office, etc. Microsoft is playing catch up in a lot of ways. What they've provided to-date is arguably not winning new customers over in droves. They need to work collectively in bringing new customers over to the Microsoft ecosystem (not the "Windows eco-system). To do so they might have to take a loss on a lot of things like they did with the Xbox for so many years. If people feel like Microsoft is disenfranchising them (i.e. replace a product with more features with product with less features) they'll walk. IMO, Microsoft needs to:

    1. Provide software and services that people value and trust over others.
    2. Provide a degree of trust that customers jumping into their ecosystem won't be left locked into an inferior system or that Microsoft takes a direction in the future that is contrary to the customers needs causing a costly move to another ecosystem.
    3. Exceed offerings of similar products by their competitors in UX/UI, features, and price.
    4. Provide some excitement to lure new customer to take a look at their offerings. First and foremost start with fixing their lousy branding; fire everyone who has had anything to do with branding in Microsoft in the past and hand the reigns over to a new group that is walled off from Microsoft's politics. Get over labeling everything "Windows" and "Microsoft". Those brands are a lost cause.
    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • Craig_​Matthews

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    I may not be the norm, but the point is that I am almost forced to pay for the "premium" version to avoid the ads when I don't really need the premium services. 

    Yes, but one of those premium services is no ads. You might not "need" the premium services, but you obviously *want* one of them -- namely, the part that removes the ads.

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