Coffeehouse Thread

63 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

So it's for sure then? No non-Metro apps on ARM? Except for Microsoft's own?

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Ted.w
  • User profile image
    Ian2
  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I am sure I can install an ARM version of Norton Anti-Virus on Win8 ARM. I mean, traditionally we have admin right on the Windows OS as user right? And admin means we can do anything we like. Windows is not Windows Phone / Xbox, soo......

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , Article wrote

    --ARM-based PCs will have special desktop apps and run all Metro-style apps

    X can run Y =/=> X cannot run Z

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , magicalclick wrote

    I am sure I can install an ARM version of Norton Anti-Virus on Win8 ARM. I mean, traditionally we have admin right on the Windows OS as user right? And admin means we can do anything we like. Windows is not Windows Phone / Xbox, soo......

    Because of the nature of ARM being for phones and tablets which traditionally have OEM-lock-down (hence why people need to jailbreak their phones), it's unlikely you're going to be able to run random third party drivers on your device.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    How is it anti-trust? WOA will be OEM-only, so it's no different than Apple not letting users install non-app store apps.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    , magicalclick wrote

    I am sure I can install an ARM version of Norton Anti-Virus on Win8 ARM. I mean, traditionally we have admin right on the Windows OS as user right? And admin means we can do anything we like. Windows is not Windows Phone / Xbox, soo......

     

    " WOA does not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop apps."


  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    "Code that uses only system or OS services from WinRT can be used within an app and distributed through the Windows Store for both WOA and x86/64. "

    If a program uses only system or OS services from WinRT, ported from existing x84/64 desktop apps, and the program still look like a WinRT desktop app, I believe it is legitimate.

    In short WinRT != Metro.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    spivonious

    Wait, it doesn't support porting? Does that mean that the win32 API is completely removed in WOA?

  • User profile image
    TexasToast

    I sure hope so.   Time to move forward finally.    Drop the old get in with the new.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , magicalclick wrote

    *snip*

    "Code that uses only system or OS services from WinRT can be used within an app and distributed through the Windows Store for both WOA and x86/64. "

    If a program uses only system or OS services from WinRT, ported from existing x84/64 desktop apps, and the program still look like a WinRT desktop app, I believe it is legitimate.

    Here's a decision tree for you: 

    Is your app javascript-WinRT or .NET-WinRT?
       YES: it will work on ARM in "Metro" mode and on x86/x64 in "Metro mode". (STOP)

    Is it pure  .NET with no pinvokes to custom library code or unsafe code?
       YES: It will work out-of-the-box on all architectures of Windows8 (STOP)

    Do you use any drivers (e.g. Wireshark drivers etc)?
       YES: It will almost certainly not work on ARM (STOP) 

    Do you have source code for it that you can compile?
      NO: You won't be able to run it on ARM until the developer builds you an ARM version. (STOP)

    Does your code have a custom JIT that you've built (e.g. flash/ie/firefox/chrome), or has custom or inline assembly code, or uses X86/X64 functions such as GetContext/SetContext? 
     YES: You will need to substantially rewrite these sections for ARM.

    If you have source code, no architecture specific functions, jits or assembly, you should just be able to recompile it for ARM - this shouldn't take you very long.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @evildictaitor:

    I am more confused. Because you said no in my other thread. In short, I have a C#/WPF/XAML app running on desktop right now. I want to do it on WinRT so that people don't need .NET4.0. It is still an desktop app. It will be able to be pinned on the Win7 style taskbar. Only it is running on WinRT, not .Net4.0. Is this possible?

    And this only works on x86/x64 machines? Not ARM?

    Thank you.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , spivonious wrote

    *snip*

    Wait, it doesn't support porting? Does that mean that the win32 API is completely removed in WOA?

    I'm assuming (I didn't read the entirety of the B8 post...tl;dr) this is all because the context of ARM is for small form factors. Even if technically you could take an existing application and just recompile it for ARM, it probably wouldn't respond appropriately to touch input and was not designed with battery regulation in mind (do background tasks really need to be there constantly?). The situation is probably akin to why they're not allowing native code development (yet) on WP7...there's no actual technical limitation (other than maybe the OS not supporting loading it), but it's a decision to ensure things like battery life regulation, UI consistency, and stability.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

     

    How so? It's not as if they're saying no one at all can write apps for it.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , magicalclick wrote

    @evildictaitor:

    I am more confused.Because you said no in my other thread. In short, I have a C#/WPF/XAML app running on desktop right now. I want to do it on WinRT so that people don't need .NET4.0. It is still an desktop app. It will be able to be pinned on the Win7 style taskbar. Only it is running on WinRT, not .Net4.0. Is this possible?

    And this only works on x86/x64 machines? Not ARM?

    Thank you.

    Let's follow the decision tree for what happens if you convert to using WinRT:

    Is your app javascript-WinRT or .NET-WinRT? (YES)
       YES: it will work on ARM in "Metro" mode and on x86/x64 in "Metro mode". (STOP)

     

    and in it's current form of C# WPF:

    Is your app javascript-WinRT or .NET-WinRT? (No)
       YES: it will work on ARM in "Metro" mode and on x86/x64 in "Metro mode". (STOP)

    Is it pure  .NET with no pinvokes to custom library code or unsafe code?
       YES: It will work out-of-the-box on all architectures of Windows8 (STOP)

  • User profile image
    Bas

    I thought I'd consider this a big deal, but now that they announced it I really don't mind nor care. I doubt I'd ever want to use non-Metro apps on an ARM device anyway. Even Office seems... unnecessary. Maybe I haven't thought this through, but I doubt this'll hurt anything.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    @Bas: If they allowed non-Metro apps then you'd end up with a boatload of ugly, warmed-over conversions.

    I think this is a good move.

     

  • User profile image
    felix9

    Does WoA desktop supports Command Prompt ? Windows Scripting Host ? PowerShell ? any dynamic scripting technology ?

    Can I write a 'desktop app' for WoA in .bat/.cmd/.vbs/.cmdlet/.ps etc ????? how about PowerShell + WPF ??

    Because, you can't actually put a  'digital signature' on a batch/script right ?

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.