Coffeehouse Thread

25 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

Software Engineer at Microsoft?? No C#?

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    bobonecoupon

    Why does Microsoft advertise jobs for new College Grads with no mention of C#?

     

    Qualifications:

    • Pursuing a B.S./M.S. or Ph.D. degree in Engineering, Computer Science, or related field
    • 1-2 years experience programming in C++, Java, or other computer programming languages preferred
    • Ability to derive creative and innovative solutions by thinking "outside the box"
    • Expertise in feature definition, design, and feasibility
    • Demonstrated skill in estimating development time
  • User profile image
    blowdart

    I've taken part in graduate recruitment interviews, why would we reject people just because their course didn't cover a language? We get people with C# and it's always nice to see it on the whiteboard, because then I don't have to try to remember pointers and malloc, but I've never had a problem with folks using Java or C or C++ when interviewing. Graduates tend not to have C# and it's teachable.

    (This of course is my personal opinion, rather than a stated MS position)

  • User profile image
    cbae

    How do you encourage universities to start offering classes on developing in C# unless there's some mention of it in the job descriptions?

    You should at least mention C# experience as being "nice to have".

     

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    The simple answer is because not all Microsoft software-development positions use C#.

    If you have a strong background in C/C++ Microsoft have lots of places for you to go, and they don't want to put you off from applying by saying anything about C#.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @bobonecoupon: Look at their products. Windows, Visual Studio, SQL Server and Microsoft Office are all written in C/C++, so significant portions of their business are native code.

    A good college course will teach you a variety of languages, that are statically or dynamically typed. Working at Microsoft, you tend to have to change jobs every two years or so, with everyone from Technical Fellows like Mark Russinovich who worked on the Windows Kernel in native code, now building a managed code Fabric controller in Azure, to people like Daniel Moth who were beacons in the .NET world ending up in C++ land.

    If you only want to write programs in 1 language, then you are limiting your attractiveness as an employee, as Computer Science rarely is about the language you use

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Surely "or other programming languages" covers C#, doesn't it?

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , evildictaitor wrote

    The simple answer is because not all Microsoft software-development positions use C#.

    If you have a strong background in C/C++ Microsoft have lots of places for you to go, and they don't want to put you off from applying by saying anything about C#.

    But there was mention of "Java" in the description. What place does a Java developer have in Microsoft that a C# developer wouldn't?

    I might understand if this was for a position in the Mountain View campus. Microsoft is essentially the redheaded stepchild of Silicon Valley. I've seen job postings that essentially say "No Microsoft  please". IOW, if you have any experience developing on any of Microsoft's platforms, they don't want you. But the thing is, this position is for a job AT MICROSOFT. It's almost as if Microsoft is embarrassed to list their own technologies as a requirement lest they scare people away who don't want to be "indoctrinated' into the use of Microsoft's platforms.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    But there was mention of "Java" in the description. What place does a Java developer have in Microsoft that a C# developer wouldn't?

    Most universities teach Java, because it's less evil than something from Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , AndyC wrote

    Surely "or other programming languages" covers C#, doesn't it?

    Surely, they could have written "...Java, C#, or other programming languages". But maybe they're paying by the character, and the two-extra characters threw them over the budget limit.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    But there was mention of "Java" in the description. What place does a Java developer have in Microsoft that a C# developer wouldn't?

    Because they're graduates, and that's what's taught. Things like OOP and design patterns translate well to C#. Although it seems a lot of universities don't bother with design patterns, IOC, or anything that actually makes your knowledge practical.

  • User profile image
    bobonecoupon

    @blowdart: I just find it odd that they note Java but not C#... I understand they might develop in C++ or they might have learnt Java in College... But "or other computer programming languages preferred" could cover those.

    I also find it disturbing that they make an assumption that College students only care to learn what is on the textbook in front of them. If a College student really aspires to work for Microsoft, I'm sure strategically they would put in some time to learn C# to the extent of Java and/or C++.

    I just think Microsoft like many other Tech-Giants have become reliant on top Universities which teach C++ and Java...

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    Because they're graduates, and that's what's taught. Things like OOP and design patterns translate well to C#. Although it seems a lot of universities don't bother with design patterns, IOC, or anything that actually makes your knowledge practical.

    Sure, but nothing stops students from learning this stuff on their own outside of the academic environment. Why not encourage it?

    What's the point of programs like DreamSpark? Why bother learning about Microsoft technologies if you can't gain any advantage when even applying for a job at Microsoft itself?

  • User profile image
    bobonecoupon

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Sure, but nothing stops students from learning this stuff on their own outside of the academic environment. Why not encourage it?

    What's the point of programs like DreamSpark? Why bother learning about Microsoft technologies if you can't gain any advantage when even applying for a job at Microsoft itself?

     

    I agree, C based languages should be preferred not Java. I understand it is all under the scope of OOP but someone at Microsoft is typing these job postings...

  • User profile image
    Bass

    When I graduated college I knew C# more than any other language IMO. Not because I learned it in school (my school was mostly obsessed with C++).

    I learned it at my own time and with internships (which make you program things that would look like a sick joke by a professor if it was an assignment). Thus I felt most comfortable with C#.

    But anyway I think you are reading too much into this. You don't see Google putting Dart or Go in their job descriptions either.

    Microsoft is a big company and not everyone who works there is a .NET fanatic. Their scope is much bigger than just .NET. They have huge swath of people who are C and Assembly pros and probably look at high level languages with disdain. And that's fine. It could even be probably (not sure obviously) that .NET/C# is a minority language inside of the company. Consider how much native stuff Microsoft has. And yeah I've fairly sure there is some Java programmers at Microsoft too. Consider that they contribute to Hadoop.

     

  • User profile image
    pavone

     MS hires college grads? is there a link to such a posting? 

    Anyways, it's true schools don't bother with C#. At my university, they only taught C++, and then we had to learn Java for Compiler class since we were required to write a compiler for it. Out of the entire faculty, there's only one professor who knows C#. It doesn't help that most of our schoolwork is based on Unix machines, yeah we still Emacs over here. 

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , bobonecoupon wrote

    I agree, C based languages should be preferred not Java. I understand it is all under the scope of OOP but someone at Microsoft is typing these job postings...

    Java is a C based language.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    But there was mention of "Java" in the description. What place does a Java developer have in Microsoft that a C# developer wouldn't?

    I might understand if this was for a position in the Mountain View campus. Microsoft is essentially the redheaded stepchild of Silicon Valley. I've seen job postings that essentially say "No Microsoft  please". IOW, if you have any experience developing on any of Microsoft's platforms, they don't want you. But the thing is, this position is for a job AT MICROSOFT. It's almost as if Microsoft is embarrassed to list their own technologies as a requirement lest they scare people away who don't want to be "indoctrinated' into the use of Microsoft's platforms.

    Java isn't an anti-Microsoft technology - nor is C# a specifically Microsoft technology. Microsoft just have Java in their job-offer because that's what the recruiter thought was best. Microsoft would be happy to take on new members of staff that were competent in C#, just as they would be happy to take on new members of staff that are competent in Java or C++.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , evildictaitor wrote

    *snip*

    Java is a C based language.

    Indeed. And if anything C# is a Java based language (with all the stupid stuff removed!) Wink

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.