Coffeehouse Thread

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Surface Pro Reviews

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  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Yes.

    I decided not to comment on it directly because it is part of a long list of supposed reasons why Surface supposedly sucks, many of which are spurious at best, I was just going to assume it was an exaggeration, and not a request for help diagnosing why Windows8 has a 90x slowdown in network file copy speeds compared to Linux, particularly since I know from experience that copying large files is an inherently disk and network bound task and that the code for copying network files in Windows RT is the ostensibly the same as copying network files in Windows 7, which the op himself says is fast.

    Maybe it's specific to Windows RT or Surface RT?

    Regardless, rjdohnert gave props to W8 and Metro; why would you think he was being disingenuous about the file copy? He's been a C9 member since 2004 and I haven't seen him flooding the forum with negativity about Microsoft. Why are you always so dismissive of any issue or complaint about Microsoft's technology?

  • evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Regardless, rjdohnert gave props to W8 and Metro; why would you think he was being disingenuous about the file copy? He's been a C9 member since 2004 and I haven't seen him flooding the forum with negativity about Microsoft. Why are you always so dismissive of any issue or complaint about Microsoft's technology?

    If it was phrased like a genuine concern, I would have treated it as such. Long lists of "things I don't like about X" isn't a request for help.

    Also I hadn't appreciated that rj was an old and quiet niner. He looked like he had just popped in to join in from the Interwebs to have a swing of the bat at the Microsoft piñata.

  • cbae

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Maybe it's specific to Windows RT or Surface RT?

    Regardless, rjdohnert gave props to W8 and Metro; why would you think he was being disingenuous about the file copy? He's been a C9 member since 2004 and I haven't seen him flooding the forum with negativity about Microsoft. Why are you always so dismissive of any issue or complaint about Microsoft's technology?

    Nevertheless, claiming that a network issue is prevalent to Windows 8 is specious at best. His complaint about the network issue was amid a list of things he hated about Windows 8--not Windows RT or the Surface specifically.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Also I hadn't appreciated that rj was an old and quiet niner. He looked like he had just popped in to join in from the Interwebs to have a swing of the bat at the Microsoft piñata.

    Maybe you should give people voicing issues about Microsoft products a little bit of the benefit of the doubt you preach that we should give Microsoft. It seems like you have this huge chip on your shoulder and are always looking to defend Microsoft no matter what the context is or who you offend in the process.

  • vesuvius

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    *snip*

    Maybe you should give people voicing issues about Microsoft products a little bit of the benefit of the doubt you preach that we should give Microsoft. It seems like you have this huge chip on your shoulder and are always looking to defend Microsoft no matter what the context is or who you offend in the process.

    Some of us remember his amusing "coding when drunk" posts, though if you look through his posts he is an out and out Linux fanboi, and never far from rubbishing windows. I think he has PCOS a linux distro that was rubbished by corona_coder.

    I like the guy, and wish he would post more but he is a Linux disciple.

  • evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Maybe you should give people voicing issues about Microsoft products a little bit of the benefit of the doubt you preach that we should give Microsoft. It seems like you have this huge chip on your shoulder and are always looking to defend Microsoft no matter what the context is or who you offend in the process.

    I'm happy to help people with real problems with Windows.

    Lists of "reasons why X sucks" is not constructive, and ignoring it isn't "defending" Microsoft. If rj has a real problem with file copies in Windows RT he can post it in a constructive way with details of what he was trying to do and allowing us to contribute towards a solution.

    His paragraph was not a request for help. It was a rant against Windows, and on the basis of not encouraging negativity, I was going to just ignore it, although you seem to have turned it into yet another one of your tiring personal attacks against me.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I'm happy to help people with real problems with Windows.

    Lists of "reasons why X sucks" is not constructive, and ignoring it isn't "defending" Microsoft. If rj has a real problem with file copies in Windows RT he can post it in a constructive way with details of what he was trying to do and allowing us to contribute towards a solution.

    His paragraph was not a request for help. It was a rant against Windows, and on the basis of not encouraging negativity, I was going to just ignore it, although you seem to have turned it into yet another one of your tiring personal attacks against me.

    But the fact is you didn't ignore it and instead used it as yet another opportunity to try diminish the importance of the issues people bring up here. Sometimes issues come out of frustration but that doesn't warrant the dismissal of the issue nor the start of some twisted war of words that gets us no where. Sure people have to mind their tone but its gets is no where throwing stones.

    You've stated previously that you get tired of people bringing up complaints that have already been heard. We'll I haven't heard of a file copy performance issue with W8. From my perspective it seems that what triggers your dismissive tone (and that's being generous) is more than just repetition. I really encourage you to have a more open mind on issues that are brought up here rather than the snap judgement you seem to have these days.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • Retro​Recursion

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Then you must be confusing portrait and landscape. Most of the stress from holding a tablet is from the downward force applied to your fingers. If you hold a tablet as any normal person does, one edge of the tablet is anchored between your thumb and index finger and the rest of your fingers support the tablet with an upward torque.

    Note sure how I would be confusing portrait and landscape. Regardless, if you hold the Surface in portrait orientation it becomes very heavy to hold. I hold it as you mentioned, but most tablets are gripped in the lower corners. You are saying that I should grip it more in the middle. I would assume you don't have a Surface yourself because toward the middle is where the capacitive Start button is. Get anywhere near it and you'll be flipping back into the Start screen. Thus you are forced to keep your palms in the lower corners. So yes, I am holding it right and yes, it's still heavy.

    Surface is mostly a two-handed device, especially if you hold it landscape. This is one of the reasons I rarely reach for the Surface as tablet of choice.

  • evildictait​or

    You've stated previously that you get tired of people bringing up complaints that have already been heard. We'll I haven't heard of a file copy performance issue with W8. From my perspective it seems that what triggers your dismissive tone (and that's being generous) is more than just repetition. I really encourage you to have a more open mind on issues that are brought up here rather than the snap judgement you seem to have these days.

    I didn't "dismiss" his complaints about copying files over the network. I was ignoring them. If rj has a real problem with Windows RT copying files over a network, he should start by not telling the people that worked on that product that it has "been dismissed as junk".

    I have no interest in helping people who are just going to be rude and who start off their concern with what looks like a rant about how the people they expect to help them suck - whether their concerns are legitimate or not.

  • cbae

    , Visible = False wrote

    *snip*

    Note sure how I would be confusing portrait and landscape. Regardless, if you hold the Surface in portrait orientation it becomes very heavy to hold. I hold it as you mentioned, but most tablets are gripped in the lower corners. You are saying that I should grip it more in the middle. I would assume you don't have a Surface yourself because toward the middle is where the capacitive Start button is. Get anywhere near it and you'll be flipping back into the Start screen.

    Then flip the Windows button around to the other side.

    Thus you are forced to keep your palms in the lower corners.

    No, you're not. See above.

    So yes, I am holding it right and yes, it's still heavy.

    If you're holding it in the corner, the aspect ratio isn't going to make much of a difference. It's going to be heavy no matter what. So you are holding it wrong.

    Surface is mostly a two-handed device, especially if you hold it landscape. This is one of the reasons I rarely reach for the Surface as tablet of choice.

    In my use cases, my hands aren't needed to support the majority of the weight, whether it's with one hand or with two hands. I either have it on a table or resting on my belly if I'm lounging on the sofa.

  • Retro​Recursion

    Then flip the Windows button around to the other side.

    How do you flip a capacitive hardware button anywhere? If I rotate the Surface, then my other and will be touching the button.

    If you're holding it in the corner, the aspect ratio isn't going to make much of a difference. It's going to be heavy no matter what. So you are holding it wrong.

    That's my whole point. A 16:9 device is awkward to hold, especially if the device is heavy like the Surface is. Perhaps MS will be able to do something in software to compensate for that sensitivity.

    In my use cases, my hands aren't needed to support the majority of the weight, whether it's with one hand or with two hands. I either have it on a table or resting on my belly if I'm lounging on the sofa.

    That's a pretty narrow use case. As a mobile device, I very rarely reach for the Surface because it's not nearly as convenient as other tablet options. And a few times I have reached for it, I have regretted later because the batter had run dead. If you leave it in standby for more than a few days without it being on the charger, it'll be dead. Never have that problem with the iPad, but on more than one occasion I've arrived with my Surface only to find it completely drained and unusable.

  • cbae

    , Visible = False wrote

    *snip*

    How do you flip a capacitive hardware button anywhere? If I rotate the Surface, then my other and will be touching the button.

    You were complaining about it being too heavy when holding it with one hand. Make up your mind. If you're going to hold it with two, hold it with one hand in the center and one hand in the corner.

    It's not rocket science.

    *snip*

    That's my whole point. A 16:9 device is awkward to hold, especially if the device is heavy like the Surface is. Perhaps MS will be able to do something in software to compensate for that sensitivity.

    My point is that if you hold it in the corner, it's going to be too heavy even if it's a square. Your complaint about the aspect ratio is irrelevant at that point. You should be complaining that the Windows button doesn't allow you to hold it wrong.

    *snip*

    That's a pretty narrow use case. As a mobile device, I very rarely reach for the Surface because it's not nearly as convenient as other tablet options. And a few times I have reached for it, I have regretted later because the batter had run dead. If you leave it in standby for more than a few days without it being on the charger, it'll be dead. Never have that problem with the iPad, but on more than one occasion I've arrived with my Surface only to find it completely drained and unusable.

    Reach for it and do what with it? Walk around the house with it? 90% of the use cases for any computing device is while being seated, especially with any tablet that you can't palm. At least with a 16:9 device someone with larger hands could palm it in portrait mode. It'd be far more difficult to do with a 4:3 device. That's why Apple made the iPad Mini, because the 9.7" is definitely not intended for one hand use.

  • MikeInOhio

    OK... I ordered mine. We'll see how it goes (although my expectations will most likely be met)

  • rjdohnert

    @vesuvius: Actually, yes I do have a Linux distribution, http://www.os4online.com, shameless plug, but Im also a technology enthusiast and whenever I have a problem or a comment I have no problem voicing it.  I dont care about Microsofts market, Im in the Linux market.  I think Windows is a great consumer desktop system.  Would I use it to run my day to day operations?  No.  But I dont flood these forums with anti-microsoft stuff cuz Im not Anti-Microsoft.  When I brought up the file copy problem, I said I never had that problem with Windows 7 or OS4 and I was using it as a comparison, I have Windows 7 machines, RHEL machines, OS4 machines and believe it or not,  I am a huge Windows 7 fan and if Microsoft had just made Windows 8 where it utilized Metro better than what it does than I would be a Windows 8 fan.  As it stands, Im not.  I feel thoroughly let down by Windows 8 and its performance, the issues I had with Windows RT and the Surface RT were a terrible let down because think about it, users base their like or dislike by the presentation and by the performance.  I do read Channel 9 everyday, I read the forums, but I also come from the old school where you learn there is a time to listen and a time to speak.  I returned my Surface RT because of two reasons, first, the kiosk I got it from really were for the lack of a better word, assholes.  They didnt want to help, they didnt want to even look at it.  I actually just wanted another machine after spending 4 hours with Microsoft tech support the night before trying to fix the problems.  They didnt want to replace it and I had to wait for them to make 6 phone calls before they said, we can give you your money back but we wont replace it.  This was only a week or so, after I bought the blasted machine.  Notice I didnt say the Kindle Fire HD was a better machine but I needed a tablet and I hate the iPad and I hate the Nexus.  I will buy another Windows tablet but it will be probably after some other vendors come out with better machines.  Second, totally turned off by the "Microsoft Store" in Durham NC and to spend that much money on a tablet and insurance, to be told we wont replace it when its faulty.  No offense to any Microsoft employees, but your customer service needs to get a whole lot better.  Sorry but it is what it is.  If you are looking for a Linux vs Windows troll, Im not that guy.  Just telling you what my experience was with Windows RT, Windows 8 and the "Microsoft Store"

  • spivonious

    When the announced the Surface line, I wanted the Surface Pro, but now that I've experienced my wife's Asus RT, I can't imagine doing serious work on a 10-11" screen. Windows RT for casual tablet use, and an 13-15" touch-enabled ultrabook for serious work.

  • brian.​shapiro

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Anyone who has a private file server is a pretty big outlier on the distribution of how an average person uses a computer.

     

    Too bad , 'cus it makes a lot of sense to have a personal file server if the future is tablets or tablet like PCs with relatively low internal hdd space.

    Currently I use a external hdd, if I ever bought a Surface or Surface Pro, with the even more limited disk space, I'd probably upgrade that to a  file server.

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