Coffeehouse Thread

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That was a lot of totally unneeded angst

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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Sheesh, couldn't someone at Microsoft in the last months just said "we can't talk much about it until Build, but be assured, C# and XAML will still be first class citizens in Windows!"

    That would have avoided lots of drama.

  • User profile image
    xgamer

    +1

  • User profile image
    felix9

    DevDiv speaks now

    https://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2011/09/13/building-the-future-with-visual-studio.aspx

    HTML and JavaScript only represent one piece of the Microsoft client story. For developers whose skill sets revolve around C#, Visual Basic, or C++, we've innovated across both managed and native technologies, spanning their runtimes, libraries, compilers, and UI layers.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Made the whole thing almost an anti-climax, there really was no need to try and disguise the fact. In fact more people would have been ready and downloading the tools

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Or, of course, people could've just not gotten their panties in a bunch like that.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    You're just looking for drama if you didn't see it turning out like today... It's pretty obvious

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Time to say, "I told you so".

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Oh no, it was completely necessary. A lot of poeple I thought as competent and reasonable have now been dumped in the loonies category.

    From the "weeding out the idiots" point of view, Microsoft *delivered*.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    @wastingtimewithforums: What angst?

    Did anyone seriously believe they were going to drop .NET for a markup language?

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    @Ray7:No, but it wasn't exactly hard to believe they could have created some ridiculous constraints that meant metro-ized apps would have used a HTML/JS frontend and some form of interop for legacy backends. Given past history of Active Desktop, HTAs and Gadgets it wouldn't exactly be without precedence.

     

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @AndyC:

    Active Desktop, HTAs and Gadgets = pretty much failed. I think the conclusion should be more like, the tile may fail just like those previous attempt. But instead, their logic went completely opposite saying those failed things are going to take over.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    This new HTML5 thing is indeed big though. The transition between different platform is seemless. There are actually way more work done than I expected. It is easy to make .NET works great on Win8, but, allowing this much of seemless experience on HTML5 is very challenging.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    ,PaoloM wrote

    Oh no, it was completely necessary. A lot of poeple I thought as competent and reasonable have now been dumped in the loonies category.

    From the "weeding out the idiots" point of view, Microsoft *delivered*.

    Hardly. The only idiots here are those that can't see that Silverlight and WPF are now deprecated. Metro apps designed with your choice of C++, C#, VB, or JS coupled with views in HTML or XAML is the new first class app. It was quite clear from the spin today that they want you to "re-imagine" your apps. At most for Silverlight they showed and old, simple demo app being ported to metro by lets see... changing a few name spaces, tweaking some of the api calls and swapping out some of the controls for new metro ones. Sure your SL & WPF apps will run on Windows 8 but so will your VB6 apps. If Silverlight was first class they would have had metro templates for it in Visual Studio.

    So the battle is over. What remains to be seen is if:

    1. Microsoft can sell developers on the new development model.
    2. Microsoft can sell customers on Windows 8 devices.

    I'll admit the OS is sexy, fluid, and approachable. Metro looks like a great UX as well but how that will churn out LOB apps aside from the media rich apps they showed today remains to be seen.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    a235301

    Well, the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the corner hasn't been acknowledged or addressed:  with the development model and WinRT being radically different in Windows 8, how does a developer that has to support Windows platforms, back to and including XP, have any sane development strategy?  Sure, legacy apps will run on Windows 8, but how does a developer begin to take advantage of some of the new features w/o having to completely fork their development(one version for 8 and one for every other version of Windows)?  I have a mix of native C++, VB6 and .NET components all working together in one application.  How do I start shedding some of those development platforms in a sane manner?  What development platforms make the most sense while still being able to support Windows 7 and earlier?  Microsoft has to start putting together a good story and fast otherwise they risk many of us developers say "Ah screw it, my existing apps will run just fine on Windows 8, forget utilizing all these new features."

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: None of those platforms are deprecated. They are just all superseded by WinRT for certain use cases. Your old LOB apps will continue to be developed and run just the same as they always have.

    How do you think VB.NET and C# are able to function? It's not like they've suddenly become native code languages.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    ,kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: None of those platforms are deprecated. They are just all superseded by WinRT for certain use cases. Your old LOB apps will continue to be developed and run just the same as they always have.

    How do you think VB.NET and C# are able to function? It's not like they've suddenly become native code languages.

    Silverlight & WPF != .Net

    It's kills me how some people get the notion that because .Net/C#/XAML is still part of Microsoft's strategy that it means Silverlight and WPF will still be treated at first class. I can still develop in Winforms today too. We know how Microsoft continues to invest in and improve Winforms... The same could be said for WinMo. and why not throw VB6 in there too. Our VB6 apps still run on Windows 7 so why not?

    Certain use cases? Really? Did you catch any of the keynote or big picture sessions? I guess you must must have not gotten the latter...

     

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    @DeathByVisualStudio: I think you're confusing people's worries that Microsoft were about to go down the road of "We can catch up with the iPad quickly if we just jump on the HTML5 bandwagon" with some sort of blind devotion to "Silverlight" or "WPF" labels, neither of which is terribly important to anyone.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    @DeathByVisualStudio: What worried people, as I understood it, is the ability to leverage existing skills. People weren't happy that they had to learn HTML5/JS to write these apps.

    What they showed in the keynote is that you can write those apps using C#/XAML with minimal code changes from existing Silverlight/WPF apps. There's some new APIs and new controls to use to use the new features, but that's natural.

    What matters is that the skills I have in C# or C++ etc. are usable to make these new applications, and I can use a lot of the existing class libraries with only minimal code changes. And I'll probably be able to use PInvoke or COM interop to use native 3rd party libraries as well (although not on ARM, I expect Smiley ).

    So, no need to panic. We're not all going to have to learn HTML5/JS and forget everything we knew before.

    Though I still don't see why they couldn't just say "yeah, you can use XAML/C# too" a few months back and avoided all of this nonsense.

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