Coffeehouse Thread

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The Death of Live

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  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    So Microsoft has finally killed Windows Live:

    http://www.liveside.net/2012/05/02/microsoft-says-goodbye-to-windows-live-building-windows-8-blog/

    The online services will mostly live on, and some of the apps will live (some of them somewhat stripped down) in Windows 8.

    As someone who's kept an eye on Windows Live for quite a while this is both a sad day and a, welcome day. It's sad because it's reminded me of all the excitement and the promise that came early in Windows Live's life but welcome because Windows Live quickly became a (mostly) neglected set of could-have-beens that never reached their potential. Microsoft was bold and they experimented but they have never felt committed to the platform. They release products showing promise, only to be overtaken by their competitors. It took them almost 5 years to release a desktop app for SkyDrive, one of the most obvious features, for goodness sake. 

    Sadly Microsoft don't seem to have learnt from one of the number one lessons of this fiasco: pick a brand and stick to it. It won't be number one overnight, but it'll never be number one if you change its name every few years. And yet we see this: http://www.liveside.net/2012/05/02/microsoft-advertising-rebrands-too-and-xbox-drops-inside-xbox-what-a-week-were-having/

    Is it Bing? Is it Microsoft Advertising? Why does it depend who I am? So advertising is Bing? Or isn't it? Is Bing advertising? But isn't Bing search?

    And what's up with the "Inside Xbox"? "We'll continue to provide content in some markets but not others". WTF? Did intertube passport control stop the EMEA content from being streamed to the US? Language differences aside the western world is essentially one market place. Customers in the US don't have a significantly different standard of living to those in the UK or France (except the Scandinavians who inhabit utopia...). 

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    It will be a sad day when the MSN Live .Net 2012 X-Box Pro Plus Bing Windows Mesh Account Online Office 365 will get shut-down. Luckily this is not that day, but yet just another in a long line of Microsoft trying to re-brand their way out of an unprofitable idea. 

     

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    Some of this is to be expected. Many of these services have lived on islands (Xbox stuff) and/or simply are not ready for the SaS/mobile world, while the "brand" has never been good. With Windows 8 they have an opportunity (necessity?) to consolidate everything into a more cohesive, consumer and mobile friendly set of services and apps. The end result will only be somewhat recognizable as a progression of Live etc. So dropping a "brand" that's never been strong at this point is a smart move.

    What concerns me in this article, though, is what's missing here. In particular, for me, there's no mention of Windows Live Writer. It will be a very sad day if this application dies due to this change.

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    Great title BTW

  • User profile image
    bitdisaster

    @wkempf Save Windows Live Writer petition http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/dontkillwlw

     

  • User profile image
    JeremyJ

    @GoddersUK: I think this is a smart move because in essence the seperate products are going away.  They are all going to be seamlessly built into Windows 8, Windows Phone, XBox, etc.  They don't need seperate branding because they are just now integrated features all powered around Skydrive.

  • User profile image
    SteveRichter

    , JeremyJ wrote

     I think this is a smart move because in essence the seperate products are going away.  They are all going to be seamlessly built into Windows 8,  ...

    what about the users who do not plan to upgrade for a while?

     

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , GoddersUK wrote

    So Microsoft has finally killed Windows Live:

    Renaming != killing.

     The names we used to describe our products added to that complexity: we used "Windows Live" to refer to software for your PC (Windows Live Essentials), a suite of web-based services (Hotmail, SkyDrive, and Messenger), your account relationship with Microsoft (Windows Live ID), and a host of other offers. 

    ...

    Windows 8 provides us with an opportunity to reimagine our approach to services and software and to design them to be a seamless part of the Windows experience, accessible in Windows desktop apps, Windows Metro style apps, standard web browsers, and on mobile devices. ...

    it is all included when you turn on your PC for the first time. 

    New names for stuff:

    Service

    Windows 8

    Windows Phone

    Web/HTML 5

    (live.com)

    API (dev. 
    live.com)

    Earlier Versions

    Account

    Microsoft account

    Microsoft account

    Account.live.com

    OAUTH

    Windows Live ID, Passport

    Storage/ 
    Docs

    SkyDrive app, SkyDrive Desktop

    SkyDrive app, Office app

    SkyDrive.com

    REST, JSON

    FolderShare, Live Mesh, Windows Live Mesh

    Email

    Mail app

    Mail app

    Hotmail.com

    EAS

    Windows Live Mail, Outlook Express

    Calendar

    Calendar app

    Calendar app

    Calendar.live.com

    EAS, REST

    Windows Live Mail, Windows Calendar

    Contacts

    People app

    People app

    People.live.com

    EAS, REST

    Windows Contacts

    Messaging

    Messaging app

    Messaging app

    Integrated in Hotmail and SkyDrive

    XMPP

    MSN Messenger

    Photos/ Videos

    Photos app, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker

    Photos app, Camera Roll

    Photos.live.com

    REST, JSON (via SkyDrive)

    Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Movie Maker


  • User profile image
    JeremyJ

    @SteveRichter: The services still exist.  They are not going anywhere.  You will just have to use the web interfaces until you do decide to upgrade.  They will probably just have more generic names like Microsoft Calendar.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @JeremyJ: So what you are saying is that they are killing the existing W7/Vista desktop clients and for those still using W7/Vista they'll have to use the web interfaces instead? Nor more Windows Live Mail? Messenger? Sky Drive desktop?

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    , DeathByVisualStudio wrote

    @JeremyJ: So what you are saying is that they are killing the existing W7/Vista desktop clients and for those still using W7/Vista they'll have to use the web interfaces instead? Nor more Windows Live Mail? Messenger? Sky Drive desktop?

    From the original article on the Building Windows 8 blog:

    "For customers who use Windows 7, we have a set of Windows desktop apps, including Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, Mail, Messenger, Family Safety, and our recently released SkyDrive for the Windows desktop."

    Doesn't sound like they plan to move everybody to a web interface.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    , evildictaitor wrote

    *snip*

    Renaming != killing.

    *snip*

    New names for stuff:

    Service

    Windows 8

    Windows Phone

    Web/HTML 5

    (live.com)

    API (dev. 
    live.com)

    Earlier Versions

    Account

    Microsoft account

    Microsoft account

    Account.live.com

    OAUTH

    Windows Live ID, Passport

    Storage/ 
    Docs

    SkyDrive app, SkyDrive Desktop

    SkyDrive app, Office app

    SkyDrive.com

    REST, JSON

    FolderShare, Live Mesh, Windows Live Mesh

    Email

    Mail app

    Mail app

    Hotmail.com

    EAS

    Windows Live Mail, Outlook Express

    Calendar

    Calendar app

    Calendar app

    Calendar.live.com

    EAS, REST

    Windows Live Mail, Windows Calendar

    Contacts

    People app

    People app

    People.live.com

    EAS, REST

    Windows Contacts

    Messaging

    Messaging app

    Messaging app

    Integrated in Hotmail and SkyDrive

    XMPP

    MSN Messenger

    Photos/ Videos

    Photos app, Photo Gallery, Movie Maker

    Photos app, Camera Roll

    Photos.live.com

    REST, JSON (via SkyDrive)

    Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Movie Maker


    Many of these services existed before and outside of live (LiveID/Accout = .netPassport; WL Hotmail = MSN Hotmail; Contacts = MSN Messenger integrated with Outlook Express' address book; Messaging = MSN Messenger). Windows Live is only the branding. I never intended to suggest Microsoft was killing (all) the services. (Although I found an enjoyable irony in using the term "Death" in this case...)

    The fact is they ARE killing the Live brand. It's a substantial shift in concept - the purpose of the original Windows Live applications (later "Windows Live Essentials") was specifically to remove features such as email client, messaging client etc. out of the OS. Tying these back in with the OS is a paradigm shift significant enough to be considered the death of the concept of Windows Live.

    I'm not even suggesting this must be a bad thing if Microsoft do it right this time. It would be a bad thing if they'd done Windows Live right, but they never did. 

     

    , Blue Ink wrote

    *snip*

    From the original article on the Building Windows 8 blog:

    "For customers who use Windows 7, we have a set of Windows desktop apps, including Photo Gallery, Movie Maker, Mail, Messenger, Family Safety, and our recently released SkyDrive for the Windows desktop."

    Doesn't sound like they plan to move everybody to a web interface.

    "Our current platform is currently current". That's all that can be inferred from the above. Of course the applications won't stop working just because Microsoft stops supporting them. It doesn't mean they haven't essentially discontinued WL essentials (the new Windows 8 apps are a part of Windows and, from what I gather, not on feature parity with their predecessors).

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , GoddersUK wrote

    Tying these back in with the OS is a paradigm shift significant enough to be considered the death of the concept of Windows Live.

    Not sure it's tied back in, they're still add-ons, downloaded, not within the OS.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I just hope they don't prepend windows in their services anymore.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Ranz

    What's wrong with 'Live'? Sounds like a top-level brand name to me.

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    @blowdart: Are they? Mail and so forth? Well, we'll see if they update them frequently (as was the point of WL Essentials, even if it never happened) of if they just get updated when the OS gets updated.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    Branding is killed but live domain is not going away. So how are they going to be labeled on the website? Is Calendar.live.com going to be called "Calendar" on the site?

     

  • User profile image
    JeremyJ

    @DeathByVisualStudio: What I am saying is that they will always have the web interfaces.  The applications as part of the Essential suite should continue to work but I doubt that they will update them from this point on.

    I am sure they won't make any effort to move people away from the Essential suite but it will probably gather dust rather quick.

    @brian.shapiro: My guess is that they will switch to a more generic label.  So instead of calendar.live.com it may go to something like calendar.microsoft.com.  It will probably just be branded as Microsoft Calendar. 

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