Coffeehouse Thread

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The King has no clothes on "shhhh" W8CP

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  • User profile image
    rodneyMc

    Oh the Metro "Speed Dial" board is so cool.  NOT- Ok allot of you guys are geek'd about this Metro. I'm not. I don't want it, I don't need it. There needs to be a way to disable it and I understand this is not possible. This is being forced upon the consumer to push the touch screen hardware generation. What a gimmick. Yes I'm a desktop user and I see no point in Windows 8 at this time. Oh, by the way I do use the Speed Dial homepage add on for my browsers. 

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    @rodneyMc: I will say that the all-in-one PC they had that folded from a standard monitor position down to a drafting table surface was pretty neat.

    Maybe we'll see a new generation of PCs where the screen is on/in the desk rather than standing perpendicular to it.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    I just don't know what they were thinking, I am still trying to figure out why they have done things they way they have, it is incredulous.

    What the windows team need to do ASAP is to do what Visual Studio does the first time you run it i.e. choose your favored mode (C++ Settings, C# Settings or Web Developer Settings)

    I will now try and make this as unambiguous as possible:

    1. I do not want to see anything related to metro when I am in desktop mode
    2. Fix the start button, if you don't, your existing 400 million plus users will never upgrade
    3. How many steps does it take to search in windows 8, go to a command prompt or search for a program? Search in Vista and 7 is not broken, you have tried to fix it and ended up with a square circle
    4. Unless you change your approach to separate the desktop from the tablet, your operating system will be a failure

    Metro is great for tablets and not for the desktop. I understand that you have done very little development in Windows and your efforts have been about metro, I appreciate and understand why you have done this. If you want a unified OS that is fine. A Swiss army knife is a single unit that can perform different tasks.

    Windows at present is having a screwdriver attached to your scissors and your hacksaw in your tweezers. Windows has done away the Single Responsibility Principle, people are annoyed because it is nauseous to use. I have gone back to my Windows 7 installation, so you can count me out (and 400 million others) with your atrocious operating system. I am not going to try it again, it is pretty clear that things as they are are not for me.

    I am sorry to use such negative language, I nearly stopped posting here for good, after people were needlessly negative, because it is depressing listening to people being so negative, especially when I know how hard you have worked, but your operating system is disjointed and has not considered how its billion customers would respond, you cannot and should not ship it in its current form

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    Shouldn't that be Emperor?

    EDIT: OK not to be pedantic, but I think the "Emperor has no clothes" analogy doesn't fit in this case, because in the Emperor's case, people played along and didn't say anything. However in the case of Windows 8, everybody and their dog is yelling how bad this is, it is just that MS chooses to ignore. Although I guess the outcome will be the same.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @BitFlipper: It should

  • User profile image
    rodneyMc

    , vesuvius wrote

     

    1. I do not want to see anything related to metro when I am in desktop mode
    2. Fix the start button, if you don't, your existing 400 million plus users will never upgrade
    3. How many steps does it take to search in windows 8, go to a command prompt or search for a program? Search in Vista and 7 is not broken, you have tried to fix it and ended up with a square circle
    4. Unless you change your approach to separate the desktop from the tablet, your operating system will be a failure

     

     YES Absolutely agree 100%. Excellent points. #4 Right on the money. Option to disable Metro and give me my START button back.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    People are being forced to buy Windows 8?

    I hope not at gunpoint

    Seriously though, I see W8 as MS tablet play. They HAVE to have a legit tablet solution. And that mean consumer-friendly UI... touchy... feely... sandboxed apps

    The next question is... why can't you write sandboxed apps for the desktop?

    My guess is #1 the desktop has so much flexible legacy that changing it would mean breaking existing apps, and #2, there could be a way to do it... but for the immediate term, MS needs to put out a Tablet OS... pronto... they are 2 good yrs behind Apple

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @vesuvius:

    Spot on. Though IMO their not pushing metro because they worked so hard on it or because it's the sum of what's new in W8. They are trying to force it's adoption by forcing users into it (i.e. the Start Menu vs. Start Screen) and making it difficult for desktop users (hiding the start orb, lousy keyboard & mouse support.) You're right they could make all of these problems go away by making it configurable but they won't. Sinofsky thinks he knows best and isn't going to listen to anyone. At build he shows one "desktop" touchscreen implementation and declares that in a short time our mouse & keyboard will be replaced by touch. So instead of giving us options he'll put his thumb on the scale to tip the balance in favor of his dream as impractical as it may be. Sorry Sinofsky the title of "pioneer of bringing touch to the masses" has already handed out to Steve Jobs. How about concentrating on putting out a product that delights your market instead?

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    , DeathByVisualStudio wrote

    Sinofsky thinks he knows best and isn't going to listen to anyone.

    You say he's not Steve Jobs, but that approach is exactly the one Jobs took. He didn't develop for the market, he developed what he personally wanted. A lot of times (iPod, iPhone, iPad), he was right. Other times (Lisa, iMac, Newton) he was wrong.

    I'm glad MS is taking a stand and not being wishy-washy, even if I don't agree with what they've done.

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    I think we can all agree that Windows 8/Metro is a very good interface for touch devices and perhaps table-top interfaces too. So honestly I want to see Windows 8 ship as is for those devices.    

    I think the concerns everyone seems to share is that the new interface is just unworkable for keyboard/mouse. Honestly if Microsoft continues down this course then I will short selling Microsoft's stock.   

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Sinofsky is a deep, deep Apple sleeper, and Metro on the desktop/laptop is their evil plan to destroy MS.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , spivonious wrote

    *snip*

    You say he's not Steve Jobs, but that approach is exactly the one Jobs took. He didn't develop for the market, he developed what he personally wanted. A lot of times (iPod, iPhone, iPad), he was right. Other times (Lisa, iMac, Newton) he was wrong.

    I'm glad MS is taking a stand and not being wishy-washy, even if I don't agree with what they've done.

    I agree on the not being wishy-washy bit but where He and Jobs differs is that Jobs delivered a product that was far superior than what was in the market at the time (you can argue features all you want but we know what consumers chose). Instead of producing superior products Microsoft follows with also-rans. (see Kin, Zune, and WP)

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    cheong

    @Minh:I'll add the note that from reports of a Chinese forum I attend to, only 1 user reported he installed Win8 CP on desktop. All the others claimed to install and test it just install it on tablet environment only. So apparently your thought accurately describe what others think too.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    How many steps does it take to search in windows 8, go to a command prompt or search for a program? Search in Vista and 7 is not broken, you have tried to fix it and ended up with a square circle

    Search for a program:

    1. Click in lower left or hit Windows key

    2. Start typing

    Go to command prompt:

    1. Right-click in lower left

    2. Choose "Command prompt" from the shortcut menu

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , vesuvius wrote

    I will now try and make this as unambiguous as possible:

    1. I do not want to see anything related to metro when I am in desktop mode
    2. Fix the start button, if you don't, your existing 400 million plus users will never upgrade
    3. How many steps does it take to search in windows 8, go to a command prompt or search for a program? Search in Vista and 7 is not broken, you have tried to fix it and ended up with a square circle
    4. Unless you change your approach to separate the desktop from the tablet, your operating system will be a failure

    1. What "Metro" things are you currently seeing when you're on the desktop?

    2. Put back Program Manager, people won't upgrade to Win95 without it. Actually make this whole Windows thing optional, nobody will want to use it when they're familiar with DOS... etc

    3. It not only takes the same amount of steps, they're the exact same steps.

    4. I'm not sure it will.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @AndyC:

    1. Click in your bottom left corner, click in your top right corner, hover your mouse anywhere on your right hand pane

    2. Poor example, try harder

    3. The search I have to hover across the charm on the right, and it does not work the same

    4. Just your opinion, the blind leading the blind

    [edit]

    Emperors new clothes is perfect to sum up your attitude towards anything Microsoft related. Because you find it impossible to find anything wrong, with anything they ever do (remember I have posted in these forms for years), I find it impossible that I can ever have a balanced or healthy debate with an individual so servilely ingratiating and Microsoft sycophant.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    @rodneyMc:Fact is that the experience you get from a new Tablet is different from the standard PC/Laptop but being able to do both from one device is a definite advantage. 

    I'm lucky enough to be playing with a BUILD tablet - by day I use it more as a standard PC (say 80/20 PC (Desktop) former / Slate (Metro) latter) but in the evening this switches around to being almost 100% Metro / Slate.

    I may end up wuth 2 devices or I may stick with the one but whatever hapend I am starting to value having both interfaces at my disposal in each of my devices.

    I have a touch screen desktop machine for my kids to do their hoework on which I havn't upgraded yet - it will be interesting to see if they take to the Metro / Touch interface (it isn't used much at the moment under Win 7) 

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    "3. The search I have to hover across the charm on the right, and it does not work the same"

    No you don't (at least if you're looking for a program) - you just throw mouse to lower left and click / hit windows key and start typing.

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