Coffeehouse Thread

67 posts

The cat is out of the bag

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/microsoft-announce-windows-8-rework-in-biggest-product-uturn-since-new-coke-8605776.html

    Microsoft is set to bow to pressure from customers and change "key aspects" of its much-maligned Windows 8 operating system.

    In a move described by some analysts as the biggest product U-turn since Coca Cola dropped "New Coke" 30 years ago, an updated version of Microsoft 8 released later this year will be significantly different.

    Microsoft's head of marketing and finance, Tammy Reller, confirmed the plan in an interview with the Financial Times, admitting that many users had struggled to master the new operating system. "The learning curve is definitely real," she said.

    Windows 8 was viewed as an attempt to update the personal computer for the tablet era when it was launched last October. It includes a touchscreen interface but does away with the "desktop" launch screen familiar to millions of home and work computer users.

    Ms Reller did not reveal details of what changes would be made.

    Richard Doherty, an analyst at tech research firm Envisioneering told the Financial Times: "This is like New Coke, going on for seven months – only Coke listened better." New Coke was dropped after a huge consumer back lash.

     

    BUT OF COURSE maybe it's just about the old news that the start button (without the menu) and boot to desktop come back. Microsoft better not to screw up with the start menu. The news will spread that the start button will come back, and start button = start menu in most people's minds. If instead the metro menu pops up, the feeling of betrayal will be enormous. Even bigger than with Windows 8 itself.

    I am not going to discuss the metro-menu vs start menu issue again, that's been done to death. Obviously, it wasn't as hated and useless as the apologists here claimed. Even one of the head-honchos responsible for Windows admits that there is a problem with Windows 8. And what's the most glaring difference between Windows 8 and Windows 7?

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    This is really awful reporting. The only confirmation they have is that the next version of Windows will be changing ... something (like every version of Windows always has) and that the changes will be influenced by feedback about the previous version (like the changes in every version of Windows always have been). That's apparently enough to send the writer off into flights of fancy about "the biggest product U-turn since ..."

    I'm definitely interested to see what's behind the locked down Blue UI elements. With luck, whatever it is will be something fresher and more interesting than the boring rumors and speculation we see in the press.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , contextfree` wrote

    This is really awful reporting. The only confirmation they have is that the next version of Windows will be changing ... something (like every version of Windows always has) and that the changes will be influenced by feedback about the previous version (like the changes in every version of Windows always have been). That's apparently enough to send the writer off into flights of fancy about "the biggest product U-turn since ..."

    Thurrott and Foley have confirmed that the start button and boot-to-desktop will appear, and they are very reliable.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    IMO the start menu should come back but the (legacy) start menu should be an option that can be turned off

     

    BTW Any Star Trek fans with 8 please report back on http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/app/star-trek-hub/35097b04-f765-408f-9fb7-8d6db612b664

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    @wastingtimewithforums: Sorry, I'm still skeptical Thurrott/Foley's sources know what is really going on. Until we see how the overall shell user model is (or isn't) changing it's hard to assess what they are actually talking about and what it means in context. I do think keeping the current model as is and putting a start button, menu, whatever, on top of it would be completely nonsensical.

    Personally I think the current model is the correct one and they should just persist with it and flesh it out (apps, settings, cross-app scenarios, better desktop use of things like charms, etc.) but I'm trying to keep an open mind about any new model they do introduce.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , contextfree` wrote

    I'm definitely interested to see what's behind the locked down Blue UI elements. With luck, whatever it is will be something fresher and more interesting than the boring rumors and speculation we see in the press.

    No one is married to the start menu as such. If Microsoft would bring a worthy successor, people would be far more accepting. A start menu-like replacement, using the metro style, could be acceptable.

    But if Microsoft insists on their design-crime; a jarring context-switch causing full screen something, that barfs a confusing mess of jiggling epilepsy-causing squares out (even on a 22 incher and beyond!), then the backlash will continue. And no amount of whining will change that.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    All I want in the Start Screen is a replacement for the recently-used programs list.  This was THE best way to find newly installed programs and recently used programs, which could then be pinned to the Taskbar or Start Menu.

    Why did Microsoft remove this?

  • User profile image
    Deactivated User

    Comment removed at user's request.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    , contextfree` wrote

    This is really awful reporting. The only confirmation they have is that the next version of Windows will be changing ...

    At the moment, it is pretty big news as it is coming from Tami, who runs the marketing and balances the books meaning that this story could not really come from anyone higher.

    wastingtimewithforums, DeathBy​VisualStudio and the like can all say "I told you so!", all obsequious niners constantly giving a problematical operating system plaudits have what might be construed as bad judgement.

    People have caused Microsoft far much more damage by being fanbois, rather than being objective about Windows 8.

     

  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

     , contextfree` wrote This is really awful reporting. ... off into flights of fancy about "the biggest product U-turn since ..." 

    ++

     

  • User profile image
    felix9

    as far as I can tell, the UI changes in Blue is mostly about "discoverability",

    there is a visible button, to switch between start screen and all apps view.

    there is a visible search box, in all apps view, or PC Settings.

    so, if they come up with a visible button on the taskbar, for switching to the start screen, thats reasonable.

    start menu is a thing of past, let it rest in peace please.

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    @vesuvius: The "U-turn" etc etc isn't coming from Tami Reller's remarks. It's just made up by the writer.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    , contextfree` wrote

    @vesuvius: The "U-turn" etc etc isn't coming from Tami Reller's remarks. It's just made up by the writer.

    The Independent is not a tabloid.

    Look at the following article at the Financial Times own website http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/330c8b8e-b66b-11e2-93ba-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ScaZDyEK

  • User profile image
    Kental2

    @vesuvius: I have to take issue with the fanbois statement from above; I've slowly started switching family members onto Windows 8 with absolutely no input from me after installation, and everyone from my great aunt to my grandma to my mother, who can barely open her email without managing to crash her desktop, has had positive things to say.  And the number one thing they like best is the "start screen".   Number two is the fast bootup times Tongue Out

    I think most of us here being overly experienced windows users cuts us out of the mainstream in two ways: Firstly, we're more technically savvy and therefore we can roll with changes easier than others.  That's frequently been touted as the reason we're all not really qualified to comment on Win 8, since we're not "normal users."  The second reason, however, is that we're so used to how windows works that we are VERY resistant to change (it seems to me).  So the very same reason we may feel we're having less trouble adapting to Win8 is the same reason we're resisting the change more than most, because it's "different."

    I realize that as a statistical result set my opinion represents practically nothing, but considering all of my most computer illiterate family members picked up Win8 and loved it within an hour, I'm a believer.  My opinion almost doesn't matter, because I'm not the "average" user - they are.  And they've definitely spoken Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    @vesuvius: Yes the FT is normally respectable, but this particular article makes sensational claims and doesn't back them up.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    @felix9: Yeah...this news isn't what certain people will think. They're not going to have a start menu AND a start screen. And they're certainly not going to kill the start screen...

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , MasterPie wrote

    @felix9: They're not going to have a start menu AND a start screen. And they're certainly not going to kill the start screen...

    Oh, I am very sure that you're right. They will only include the start button with blue. I think this time the backlash will be even MORE extreme. Since the start button will promise something that isn't here. Pretty much everyone assumes with the "start button" the menu, too.

    It's like buying a burger, and getting a burger, only to find out it's a turd sandwich with a paint-job after you bite. That shitstorm will be huge.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @Kental2: This has been my experience too. My wife had a driver issue with 8, and I told her that until it was sorted out I could roll her back to Windows sev-"NO!". For me it didn't make any difference, because my use of the Start Menu had already atrophied significantly with the ability to pin stuff to the task bar. At work I hit Start only to search. If for some reason I do end up browsing All Programs, it's painful.

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.