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The future is almost here (cloud-based IDE just got better)

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  • User profile image
    fanbaby
  • User profile image
    RobGreenly

    I can't wait until I can do iOS development on the cloud. Paying the Apple tax to enrich THEIR ecosystem is rediculous.

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    magicalclick

    o would I debug the app that tries to find photos on the cloud server? Because that's what my app does, find all the photos and view it in a summary. S

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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    Silverlight​WpfXAML

    that's not impressive ...

    we have a Web-based Windows PowerShell Console to do windowsy things.. that's more powerful in my opinion!

    (plus we've had people emulate consoles in plugins (flash/Silverlight) before ..

    .. anyway good stuff for Cloud9 BUT nothing new!

  • User profile image
    Bass

    Cloud9 IDE is simply awesome. I've used it to development on the go.

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    evildictait​or

    So let me get this straight...

    this is a collection of elements generated by a JITted scripting language on a load-balanced server which generates HTML and Javascript and pushes it over the Interwebs to a client which JITts the javascript to try and recover some of the speed lost by using a retarded language like javascript and using hardware acceleration in CSSv3 because GDI is slow, all using optimised AJAX/JSON in order to try and keep latency down between the server and the client over keep-alive HTTP in order to avoid the cost of restarting TCP connections...

    ... in order to render a console program that was invented in the 1980s?

    FFS. Developers are stupid. Shouldn't we have swishy minority-report style GUIs now? Why do people still want vi? Have we really been running so fast just to keep still?

  • User profile image
    Bas

    , evildictait​or wrote

    So let me get this straight...

    this is a collection of elements generated by a JITted scripting language on a load-balanced server which generates HTML and Javascript and pushes it over the Interwebs to a client which JITts the javascript to try and recover some of the speed lost by using a retarded language like javascript and using hardware acceleration in CSSv3 because GDI is slow, all using optimised AJAX/JSON in order to try and keep latency down between the server and the client over keep-alive HTTP in order to avoid the cost of restarting TCP connections...

    ... in order to render a console program that was invented in the 1980s?

    FFS. Developers are stupid. Shouldn't we have swishy minority-report style GUIs now? Why do people still want vi? Have we really been running so fast just to keep still?

     

    +1 for the use of "to try and recover some of the speed lost by using a retarded language like javascript" alone.

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    Bass

    @evildictaitor:

    Sadly I've yet to find a UI that is actually demonstratively better than the "a console program in the 1980s". Once you get past the learning curve Vim is an incredibly productive text editor.

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    evildictait​or

    , Bass wrote

    @evildictaitor:

    Sadly I've yet to find a UI that is actually demonstratively better than the "a console program in the 1980s". Once you get past the learning curve Vim is an incredibly productive text editor.

    Have you been keeping your eyes squeezed tight for the past thirty years?

  • User profile image
    Bass

    @evildictaitor:

    Emacs is alright too, if that makes you feel better. I'm sure it can run on this web console too (ignoring XEmacs of course, heh).

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , Bass wrote

    @evildictaitor:

    Emacs is alright too, if that makes you feel better. I'm sure it can run on this web console too (ignoring XEmacs of course, heh).

    Really? You think emacs is "alright"?

    Why did you ever bother to move off DOS is CUIs are so great?

    The whole reason why the web was invented was to give a graphical interface to information because the CUIs of the time were cumbersone and nasty and because CUIs are generally pretty crap at conveying information in a usable form to normal users.

    Developers who have decided to take the power of their GUI and make it emulate a CUI are so far past the point of understanding normal users that they frankly should just retire and be done with it.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    @evildictaitor:

    Ug, don't tell me you are some kind of hipster that wants to be "different" and use Nano.

    Regardless, if I want a easy to access text editor I'm going to pick Vim. I will concede that Emacs might be more advanced in some areas, and the built in Lisp interpreter is a nice touch. But I think what really attracts me to what you might call the "Editor of the Beast" is that is just more available. I'm almost guaranteed to have access to it no matter what box I'm on. Emacs doesn't come close in this type of thing.

    Obviously this also means I have more experience with Vim, so yes, I am far more productive using it vs Emacs. YMMV.

     

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    @evildictaitor:

    Exactly what does a command line interface, as integrated with a cloud-based development environment, and used by developers in that environment, have to do with normal users?

    Should the Solution Explorer, watch window, and Object Browser be removed from Visual Studio because it's useless to "normal users"? 

    I'm boggled by your post. Though I will refrain from commenting on your related contention that there's something inherently wrong with a command line interface in the first place.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , Bass wrote

    @evildictaitor:

    Ug, don't tell me you are some kind of hipster that wants to be "different" and use Nano.

    What part of me obviously disliking CUIs makes you think I would prefer a different CUI to the one you first suggested?

    What I use is GUI programs. GUI programs are way more responsive to users, give information in much more condensed and more useful forms and don't get overly encumbered by the retarded need to turn all information into text when other ways to convey the information are almost invariably better.

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    Should the Solution Explorer, watch window, and Object Browser be removed from Visual Studio because it's useless to "normal users"? 

    On the contrary - they are great examples of where Visual Studio beats stuff like GCC precisely because it's a graphical representation of the code.

    Nobody in their right mind develops code in Vim or Nano or Emacs. The world has moved on to (at the very least) Eclipse and Visual Studio - you know - programs that have intellisense and right-click refactoring and control-click jump-to-definitions, like how Emacs and Vim and Nano don't.

    Terminals suck. A GUI always conveys information better, because in the limit, they can just output text in the same way - this thread is a case in point - Anything VI can do, by definition Google Chrome can do better - but as well as the text, GUIs can have menus and clicks and animations and side-bars that immerse you in the information in a way that CUIs simply can't. And another great thing about GUIs? They don't need a manpage or a freakishly good memory to remember how to use the damn thing.

    GUIs just work. CUIs mainly exist to stroke the egos of the users who can be bothered to memorize their retarded command line syntax and to satisfy the laziness of their developers who can't be bothered to output information with anything more complicated than a printf.

    The title of this thread is wrong. Instead of saying "The future is almost here", it should really read "The ghosts of bad user interaction design from the 1960s are still haunting us".

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    Aside of the discussion about "space cadet editors", I must admit I don't get it.

    Using a browser to implement a terminal emulator is a clever hack, but sounds insanely wasteful. Can anybody explain why it's such a good idea?

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    Bass

    @evildictaitor

    Emacs and Vim certainly have GUI interfaces (for decades maybe), but I find that they really don't buy you anything. Some people might prefer it or find it useful, esp. those with less experience.

    Anyway the 1960s were better - CLIs, free love and good music. All of which I take advantage of today in 2012 as well. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Bass

    @Blue Ink

    CLI is a way of life for a POSIX developer. When I'm doing development I always have terminals open. File management, source control, compilation, some kinds of refactoring, etc. are all via CLI commands. This is especially true for modern web frameworks (eg. using the "rails" command for project management and building). Cloud9 mostly focuses on web development so it's not surprising that terminal support was in high demand. It also lets you SSH into your hosts which is obviously not that unusual. Linux servers are usually headless and don't have Xlib available.

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    cheong

    Talking about cloud based things, I hope SQL Azure can implement back most useful features soon.

    For example, something like generate create/alter SQL statement for changes... Now I have to look at multiple instances and hand-pick the changes from design view one by one. Can't imagine if I have to hand-pick in order to sync schemas across more instances...

    Now the "next best" solution is to use a local instance of SQL server as master schema and do all the modifications here, then generate script to deploy to SQL Azure. It could work but is suboptimal I think.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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