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This make me think that XAML might not be with us forever

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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , PaoloM wrote

    Er... no.

    HTML5 can be used to develop both web applications and client side applications. I was just asking how do you develop a client side application using "web technology" that is also deployable cross platform and makes use of the underlying OS functionality (OS/X keychain or Win8 contracts, for example)

    I wonder how thoroughly sandboxed a web control is on W8/OS/X? If you hook events in the web control like I did in VB6 eons ago you might be able to rig a thin client host that provides your web app with those services. Kinda like Facebook did with their Android client (and in their case it was a fail but we're taking PCs here)

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    cbae

    From what I can gather from looking into various client application frameworks that use HTML + JavaScript, they essentially do use an implicit "web control" wrapper, as you call it, in the application stack. Calls to native APIs are abstracted in a way to look to the HTML rendering engine like calls to browser plug-ins . Browser plug-ins need not only look like Flash player, right? Just make the entire API look like a plug-in to the HTML rendering engine and you can expose your entire OS to Javascript.

    From what I remember from playing with the SDK in Windows 8 CP, you cannot create libraries (i.e. the analog of CREATING a "plug-in") using Javascript. Javascript is strictly limited to front end development. IOW, it's just like with regular web applications. You cannot create plug-ins using Javascript. You can only call plug-ins from Javascript.

    Not being able to create reusable class libraries is really the biggest limitation of Javascript programming in Windows 8.

  • User profile image
    jasonholt

    @cbae, I wonder if Ander's new project TypeScript would fit the bill? We were just getting used to XAML technology, and were asking ourselves how long XAML will hang around, when all of a sudden (for us) earlier this week we find TypeScript.  Intriguing.

    At work, we are having debates about whether to stay with Windows Forms (PC only), or use XAML (mostly PC only), but in the end we will want some sort of front-end (client-server) app that can travel outside of the PC into various devices - but know that some of our apps will always stay on the PC in one form or another.  With MS changing their minds all the time, it is difficult to decide which technology to "hang our hats on", as was previously mentioned.  Because when you write something, it stays in place for years sometimes - decades even.  We want to be certain that we'll be able to support this code and not have to rewrite it every two years....

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @jasonholt: Technologies like Windows Forms, may not be the new hotness, but they will be supported for years to come. Microsoft may have new flagship products, but they have an incredible track record for keeping the old stuff supported and working for decades.

  • User profile image
    TexasToast

    I still have MFC C++ Apps I wrote for a company 12 + years ago and they still make millions a year on it.    Winforms are fast and easy to put together along with C# or VB.net if you prefer.   I dont care what anyone says ,  WPF / XAML take a bit longer to get an app done but it does turn out nicer.   It depends if you need something quick or something more refined.     I hang my hat on what works, what is fairly easy to use and debug, and what other team members can understand and contribute to.   What I like about some of the things Anders does, is he has a deep understanding of what developers need to get their work done.   I need to know and understand my application domain and have it satisfy my end users.   I do not need to know all the plumbing, and memorizing more api's and semantics of a particular language.   When I do lower level stuff that needs a hardware interface I typically use C and try to develop a layer so managed code can then take over at the higher end.  If you are doing web apps and you want to use typescript then go for it.   I dont particularly like it but it is a step up from the mess of javascript.  

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    To emphesies the original post some more, read this link http://www.zdnet.com/who-built-microsoft-typescript-and-why-7000005206/ reguarding TypeScript. The web was deemed important enough so that C# creator took time off of otnet to work on this, with a team of 50 (!) developers.

  • User profile image
    JohnAskew

    I assume fanbaby, you're not an artist, because the way you draw your conclusions isn't working.

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    , Sven Groot wrote

    Considering quite a lot of Visual Studio is currently written in XAML, I think it'll be around for a while.

    Do you think, even for a second, that Microsoft isn't working on a web-based IDE? If it doesn't, it sure will be the odd one, since from what i'm seeing, everyone and their dog is either developing one from scratch, or creating a new one from exisiting components. e.g. http://blog.springsource.org/2012/10/11/scripted-a-javascript-editor-from-vmware/

    Oh, and springsource are famous for their java tooling Smiley

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , fanbaby wrote

    Do you think, even for a second, that Microsoft isn't working on a web-based IDE? 

    I think this suggestion comes from someone with their web-coloured glasses very firmly in the ON position.

    Web development is frankly a small part of the Visual Studio and a small part of DevDiv at Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    felix9

    @fanbaby: Napa ?

     

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Web development is frankly a small part of the Visual Studio and a small part of DevDiv at Microsoft.

    If you had to calculate a percentage of revenue generated by web tools, it would be in the 0.0n%. In fact, most companies that make money from software, tend to make no money from web apps, but it offers a useful way to supply information or get updates or whatever. Yes ecommerce is important for a lot of people that sell products, the web seems important to non-software based organisations, most of these tend to be retail or entertainment.

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    , felix9 wrote

    @fanbaby: Napa ?

     

    Yes it's a start. The intellisense isn't up to par with vs2012. yet Smiley

    Very similar to Google app script. Good luck to Microsoft with that.

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I think this suggestion comes from someone with their web-coloured glasses very firmly in the ON position.

    Web development is frankly a small part of the Visual Studio and a small part of DevDiv at Microsoft.

    Since felix9 just introduced me to napa and office365, i'd say that web development isn't a small part of office. 

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