Coffeehouse Thread

18 posts

UEFI for Win7 x64?

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I was looking online and it seeming like Win7 supports UEFI. So, meaning I don't need Win8 to utilize UEFI? Why didn't they talk about UEFI support in Win7 blog?

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Charles

    UEFI has been supported since Vista SP1...

    C

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I will buy a new PC with Win7 then, can't wait any longer, I want my new SSD and mobo that supports SATA3. Ultra Desktop here I come.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    Why go out of your way to get a UEFI board with a SDD? It's not like you are going to find a SDD that is more than 2.2TB?

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    UEFI "BIOS"-s are fine, but do NOT (and I cannot stress this enough) format your hard drive as GPT/GUID. It is nothing but trouble, either on Windows 7 nor on Windows 8.  

    Windows is NOT ready for GPT - none of the MBR tools work on GPT systems (even if they think they are - due to the "fake" MBR). Windows also handles GPT entries in the uEFI boot menu incorrectly. 

    As I said, the new BIOSes (UEFI) with better mouse support and a few more toys are just fine even if they are a tiny bit more buggy on average than traditional BIOS-based systems. 

    GPT/GUID is NOT fine. It means you'll have 4x different ways to install Windows: 
     - 64x MBR
     - 64x GPT
     - 32x MBR
     - 32x GPT

    None of which are interoperable. So if you have a mix of MBR and GPT on one system then you're screwed. If you have a mix of 32x and 64x then you're screwed. If you try to install Windows twice and have any GPT partitions then you're screwed.

    Also Windows will refuse to remove GPT once it is on a partition. Many of the tools which are meant to wipe a drive instead just wipe the new "simulated" drive without touching the fake MBR or the reserved space (including Disk Manager).

    Honestly GPT is a giant clusterfuck. The second >2.2 TB drives become popular there is going to be masses of confused people complaining about it on every outlet available. Windows 8 does not improve the situation. 

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    Heck i tried to create a GPT installed and i still got an MBR system!  and this is with a brand new ASUS P9X79 Mobo ....  or if it is GPT it's really well hidden and even windows thinks it's MBR!

    also with some of the new x79 boards installing is tricky, i found a walk thru on toms hardware that helped. without it i was getting a bad install that never worked right.....

    had to copy windows and drivers onto a flash drive and install from that with my dvd unpluged and only the boot drive plugged in.

    trying to install from dvd wound up with a boot drive that would keep asking for windows repair.

    nasty.....

    but now the new system is sweet ... no ssd right now, possibly later.

     

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    @figuerres: In order to install in GPT you have to run Windows Setup in GPT mode. On my system I press F11 for the "boot menu" and if a DVD is inserted it brings up two options: 
      - DVD ROM: Windows Setup 
      - Windows Setup (GPT)    

    If you select the former you get the normal MBR installation. If you select the latter you get your system totally screwed up by GPT. As I said, would NOT recommend.   

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @.@ sounds scary, but, does GPT offer anything special other than 2.2TB?

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    @magicalclick: In theory GPT should allow you to multi-boot operating systems without a third party boot menu/system. In practice Microsoft is working very hard to screw that up. 

    Other than that GPT is really about >2.2 TB storage and making it easier to write disk management utilities. There are a few more theoretical benefits like a larger number of partitions but most systems, even enterprise systems, won't ever see those benefits.  

    Keep in mind that once an Operating System is running neither GPT nor MBR is ever really used - so you'd never expect to see true performance increases beyond 1~2ms at boot.   

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    , ManipUni wrote

    @magicalclick: In theory GPT should allow you to multi-boot operating systems without a third party boot menu/system. In practice Microsoft is working very hard to screw that up. 

    Other than that GPT is really about >2.2 TB storage and making it easier to write disk management utilities. There are a few more theoretical benefits like a larger number of partitions but most systems, even enterprise systems, won't ever see those benefits.  

    Keep in mind that once an Operating System is running neither GPT nor MBR is ever really used - so you'd never expect to see true performance increases beyond 1~2ms at boot.   

    well there is one other thing: gpt allows more partitions on a drive than mbr.

    but how many folks need / want to parttion a drive into more than 4 anyway ???

    for some stuff like multi boot and linux it might be great but for just plain old windows installs the number of partitions is almost a non issue.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @ManipUni:

    I don't need to multi-boot. So, would I get those scary issues? Or do you recommend just to use BIOS instead? thank you.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    @magicalclick: By "BIOS" I assume you mean MBR. I would recommend MBR right now unless you have a very specific use-case for GPT. The only use case that I am aware of is 3 TB hard drives (which also aren't cost effective).   

    UEFI its self is fine. It is an improvement over BIOS. So if you're shopping for a motherboard do not fear UEFI based systems (plus most of them are UEFI now anyway!).    

    GPT will, one day, be useful. But Microsoft has a heck of a lot of work to do. That work is needed on Windows Setup, Utilities (diskpart, Disk Manager, etc), Windows Boot Menu, and even system repair tools like the Boot Repair which is REALLY confused by a hybrid MBR/GPT system. 

    As I said - a LOT of work to do. Windows 8 CP is identical to Windows 7 in its handling of GPT and that is extremely disappointing. 

    To be honest I would like to see Microsoft "re-think" how they do booting. I realise Microsoft wants to be anti-competitive but it is, and has always been, a PITA to get Windows to multi-boot with its self. Their shoddy GPT implementation just breaks even that.   


  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I guess I will stay with bios then. Thanks for helping me avoiding crazy stuff.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    spivonious

    Not to change the subject too much, but does anyone partition their drives anymore? What are the advantages apart from organization?

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , spivonious wrote

    Not to change the subject too much, but does anyone partition their drives anymore? What are the advantages apart from organization?

    I partitioned my laptop SSD into two parts, because I like having my data on a separate partition from the OS. That way I can just reformat the OS partition if I want to reinstall or upgrade without worrying about my stuff. I don't do that on my desktop, because there the data is on a physically different disk from the OS.

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    @spivonious: There are few to no advantages; plus the one advantage - organisation: isn't very often true these days as having two or more drives in your system is fairly common.   

    I haven't partitioned my drives in over ten years. I just have a dedicated physical drive for the OS/user context. These days that drive is an SSD and then I shove all of my "long term storage" data on to a 2 TB HDD which is rarely spinning.   

    I can see, to a point, the advantage of doing it on a laptop where you WILL have only one drive - but what I typically do is backup my laptop's drive often and therefore am able to safely wipe out the whole drive without batting an eyelid.   

  • User profile image
    Ion Todirel

    , Sven Groot wrote

    *snip*

    I partitioned my laptop SSD into two parts, because I like having my data on a separate partition from the OS. That way I can just reformat the OS partition if I want to reinstall or upgrade without worrying about my stuff. I don't do that on my desktop, because there the data is on a physically different disk from the OS.

    I used to do that as well, but now with Dropbox and Sky Drive I feel it's less of a worry

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @Sven Groot:

    Partition SSD? My new 250GB SSD is considered to be too small for partition for me. I have another 1TB HDD on in my desktop. I get spend extra bucks for 250GB to make sure it doesn't rewrite the same place too often.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.