Coffeehouse Thread

51 posts

Why so much negativity?

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  • Kental2

    I realize that no matter what I say this is probably going to come off as a "You should never say anything bad about Microsoft" post to some degree, but I just felt the need to say this regardless.  I've been "lurking" on channel9 since early 2005.  I even had an account back in the day (Kental) that I used to post on.

    I gotta be honest though, even though I pretty much come around daily still, it's becoming harder and harder to do so.  I'm almost guaranteed to either find a thread about how much Microsoft sucks or why Windows 8 is terrible or why there's absolutely no hope because Apple is doing so well, and so on.  When I first started lurking here there was a lot of discussion ranging between a variety of topics, but now all the posts are either one person being super negative or replies to that person discussing the merits of topics typically blown far out of proportion.  There are still a few of you I look forward to seeing topics from (Sven Groot, "Ian2", Dr Herbie, etc.), but it's just not the same anymore, unfortunately.

    I probably sound like I have "old man" syndrome talking about how I wish things were like the "gold old days" right now, but I figured I'd post this to say my bit about it, regardless.  I feel like I've been around long enough to warrant it. Tongue Out

    Here's to another several years with C9 and I hope this "phase" that we've been in for at least the last year, maybe two years, will pass, and we can all try to find some positives to talk about instead of just talking about how bad things are.

    tl;dr version: I miss the lively conversations we used to have Smiley  Most of you guys are still pretty awesome, but I honestly feel like too many people have been scared off by the sheer volume of negativity and vitriol.  It's sad Sad

  • JoshRoss

    @Kental2: So, what are you working on? Anything exciting?

  • Kental2

    @JoshRoss: Just the usual Smiley  I actually do web development now, not nearly often enough with Microsoft technologies, but I try to use the appropriate tools for the client and the hardware, etc.  A mixture of ruby, PHP (yes I know, but it can be done properly as long as you don't have to maintain nasty old code), and a little bit of ASP.NET.

    Life is good.  Interestingly, when I first came to C9 I was just in my second or so year of university, and I was trying to get by with a severely limited knowledge of programming, the real world, etc.  Amazing to look back at where I was just that short amount of time ago and see the progress I've made.

    How about you?

  • Charles

    Coffeehouse 9 has always been driven by Niners. We let conversations happen versus delete the ones we don't think fit Microsoft's marketing and communication goals (remember our doctrine?).

    I agree that a few sour apples are stinking up the Coffeehouse. It's unfortunate and I have found myself ready to ban them, but they haven't done anything that requires their removal from our community besides starting pointless, uninteresting, time-wasting threads.

    You have the power to change this, Niners. For example, rather than posting about how you wish it were different you could post something interesting for us to talk about, engaging Niners in meaningful conversation. It's that easy.

    Ignore the trolls. Don't feed them. Make a point of just not replying to their nonsense and their threads will naturally disappear. It's that easy.

    Niners own the Coffeehouse. This is your place. Do something about what's wrong. Don't just talk about it being wrong. It's that easy.

    All that said, great to have you back! Make a difference!

    Keep on posting,

    C

  • Kental2

    @Charles: Well said, and point taken.  I suppose I should graduate from lurker sometime Tongue Out

  • Bass

    I'm not "pro-Microsoft" by any means but I also tire of the constant negativity on this forum. But these threads are just about as common as the threads bitching about Windows 8, I think there was one less than a week ago.

    What I don't see is much in the way of technical conversation or anything interesting like that. The problem is any time someone posts something like that nobody cares to reply. Seriously. People prefer to argue over the same stuff ad infinitum, that's the sort of the thing that becomes multi-page threads. Not like a thread about some technical advancement or whatever, it will be lucky if that gets even one reply.

     

  • magicalclick

    Apparently selling 60 millions of Win8 is not enough. I don't know what to tell you. Being right is not that important, but, who doesn't want to be right at expense of others?

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • elmer

    , Bass wrote

    What I don't see is much in the way of technical conversation or anything interesting like that.

    I thought that technical conversation was the domain of the Tech Off forum ?

  • evildictait​or

    , elmer wrote

    *snip*

    I thought that technical conversation was the domain of the Tech Off forum ?

    The TechOff forum has always been more of a "I have this particular problem, can you help me" place.

  • cheong

    C9 is a reflection of how the world (in I.T. circle) like/dislike whatever the current Microsoft products...

    You see lots of complains about Win8 here now as well as when Vista is released, but when Win7 comes out we praised it too.

    I think it always worked that way.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • Kental2

    @cheong: Interestingly, of my friends and family who've moved to Windows 8 (about 5 people) all of them had positive experiences to report.  But since 5 people is hardly a significant statistical value in the set of "all people who are currently not using Windows 8" I'm not willing to go about parroting it as a huge success Tongue Out  I'm going to be moving to Win8 around March or April timeframe, so I'm interested to see how that goes for myself.

  • cheong

    For me, I neither like nor dislike Win8. It's just another bunch of UI change for me. I've experienced change from Win3.X to Win9X years earlier (also big change in how Shell UI works) and don't think I cannot get around the difference.

    So far the reason I don't install Win8 as my primary OS is a bit different. The WinPhone connecting software is still in beta. I'll wait until it's going production then do a reinstall on raw metal once.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • gcorcoran

    I understand that a lot of people just want to be negative about something. Sometimes it feels more genuine than just kissing butt, and we mistake it for actually having a worthwhile point at times. As people who use windows products though, maybe we should all group together and hate on the other guys. Togetherness people!

    Besides, I doubt the apple users would be able to find this place and respond back on their little fisher-price computers. j/k Smiley

  • Richard.Hein

    Ok, I'll try harder, and I hope lurkers like you will answer, even if it is just a, "+1", or "interesting" comment, so I know it isn't all a waste of energy.

  • BitFlipper

    I think a lot of people don't like the direction MS has been taking in the last 18-24 months or so. That is a big source of complaints and rightfully so. If no-one complains, MS might actually think they are doing the right thing.

    Although I agree this isn't the forum for MS feedback but since this forum is supposed to be about MS related technologies, I think you can't help but have it spill over here.

  • SteveRichter

    I think the negativity is healthy pushback against the politically correct corporate machine.  And there is no alternative to the corporate message you get on C9 videos.  Is there really no one working at Microsoft who thinks the company is doing a bad job, could do much better? Of course not, but on the videos all you hear is how great azure and metro are.  I think if you graph the negatively on the forum it would match the increasing corporateness of the videos.

  • Dr Herbie

    @SteveRichter: I would agree if the majority of the negativity wasn't coming from a small monitory who endlessly find reason to complain.  I have posted criticism of Windows 8 in the case where it affected me, but we're now at the point where some posters are patently trawling the internet for anything negative about MS in order to post it here for no other reason than to criticise; that's not a constructive 'pushback' it's plain trolling.

    Herbie

  • androidi

    You could call it Business 101 "managing expectations" blunder. I'm sure few did expect that C9 would turn from a very casual site to the other extreme, where the front page is flooded with stuff that makes no sense whatsoever (Unless Russinovich comes out saying that Azure is fully DDOS-proof with no surprise-extra cost to the customer and this can be afforded by any client, which would make it of some interest and practical value for eg. running hobbyist forums - until then I don't want to see a single Azure video because there is no Unique Selling Proposition to speak off and I consider them as just corporate agenda driven spam).

    Similar blunder with Windows 8. I claim that most people expected there to be a tablet UI in addition to a traditional desktop UI experience done such that the usability of desktops is not hindered by the addition of the tablet UI. ie. If I have a desktop and upgrade to Windows 8, I don't want to learn a new "paradigm", since there are enough new things to learn if I get a Windows 8 tablet. This is like moving the locations of keys on a standard keyboard. I never buy those keyboards with weird key location or removed insert key and anyone seen using one will get quickly educated about why pianos don't come with different key layouts every couple years, only the size of keys and the timbre changes (assuming they are tuned to standard pitch).

    Scientific fact is that people have a good spatial memory, and even if my house or files on my HDD might look like a mess to you, I can find things decades later as long as they haven't been moved in the interim (winners of memory championships use a memorization system that take advantage of this fact). (When I buy a bigger new HDD and upgrade OS, the smaller HDD that went out becomes a sub folder in the bigger HDD with the small HDD staying as a backup - I get both a clean slate and a snapshot in time of the upgrade, I then use folder naming and NTFS Search to find things in 1 second from 6 million files - I only have to remember one of: partial folder/file name, rough year I last used it, or the navigation path to the folder - I have 25 years of files and I can find anything I need from any year in couple seconds despite things looking entirely unorganized mess to anyone else, because only I have the spatial & time information in my head to locate them even if the file name is just "a.zip"- a large reason why I have to use custom batch files to move folders since Windows likes changing timestamp of folders when they are moved between partitions/drives which messes up the timeline in my head of when I last worked with those folders etc making sorting by modification date useless)

    So that long post boils down to: Regular Joes recognize that Windows 8 has some agenda driven design decisions, forcing people to use Metro/Modern whether they need it currently or not. People will move there naturally if there is value to be found, don't expect it in "Modern V1.0"

    On my desktop, the Metro UI should at most be behind a new "Metro Orb", and perhaps come from double tapping Windows-key for example. Moving mouse to desktop corners should not cause anything to happen as that makes the experience like playing Quake, trying to be extremely accurate in avoiding activation of those hotspots when you don't want them. And of course the Windows 7 start menu should be there identically or just improved rather than replaced. There are some other changes I don't like either (longer boot time for non-Windows OS when going through Windows 8 boot menu and various power user stuff hard to find now) but they are not complete show stoppers.

     

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