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Why still no native support for WP mango?

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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    ,Charles wrote

    Not sure what makes you think Mango is the last of a line...

    Mango may not be the last but IMO only a fool would think that Microsoft's efforts to get Windows running on ARM had nothing to do with its ultimate replacement of WP. I'm sure Microsoft will frame it just like the WPF/Silverlight vs. HTML5/JS business -- "You can still do WPF/Silverlight in Windows 8" -- but of course that's not where they will be investing resources. It'll be deprocated just like WinMo 6.5. If I recall correctly when WP was about to be released with no means for their enterprise customers to migrate or develop LOB apps for the phone Microsoft said "oh well we'll come out with a enterprise phone OS (WinMo6.5+) that business can write LOB apps for." I bet the excuse for that not happening is "Well OEMs weren't interested in putting out WinMo phone anymore so you really can't blame us for that." In any case Microsoft spun up some BS and it didn't happen. IMO the same will be true for poor WP and everyone who has written apps for it to date.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Allowing legacy apps to run on Windows Phone 7 would have been disasterous for the platform. Right now the migration path is managed code. If enterprises need to port LOB applications, then that is the way forward. Mango even includes the ability to distribute private applications via the marketplace. I think that there are more advantages to distributing private applications via the marketplace than there are negatives. It means that you just have to publish, and all of your users get the update.

    WP isn't going anywhere. I understand that there are rumors about a future version of WP running on a Windows core. I don't see how that equates to breaking compatibility. If anything it increases the number of places you can run your app. Publish once, and your app runs on phones, desktops and tablets. There's nothing wrong with that IMO.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ,kettch wrote

    WP isn't going anywhere. I understand that there are rumors about a future version of WP running on a Windows core.

    Hmm, given the way things are going, is it possible the CE kernel might be killed off? Given that NT has now been ported to ARM is there any advantage to using CE anymore. The only other selling point of CE I can think of is true real-time support, but if you're doing that kind of work I think you'd be better off using a platform like QNX.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Don't know what the argument of this thread anymore. But, I believe WinCE and Win are still  completely different paths, and this statement should hold true for at least 10 more years. I am 80% sure of it.

    As for native support on a cell phone, hell no. I don't want buffer overflow, memory leak, memory invaid reuse, and all sorts of weird crashs on my cell phone. Hell, I want IE to be managed as well.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ,magicalclick wrote

    As for native support on a cell phone, hell no. I don't want buffer overflow, memory leak, memory invaid reuse, and all sorts of weird crashs on my cell phone. Hell, I want IE to be managed as well.

    You can get memory leaks with managed code too. And a managed IE would mean you couldn't have things like JIT Javascript compilation (because that requires the ability to manage memory pages and their permission flags directly).

    I agree with your sentiment though, perhaps "native" developers need to undergo additional processes to ensure quality (such as an increased per-app submission fee to pay for extra scrutiny).

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @W3bbo:

    ??? how would you get memory leak on C#? Aside from using too much memory.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    kettch

    @magicalclick: If you aren't properly disposing your objects or don't release references to objects, the GC might not be able to tell when you are done with them and won't collect them.

  • User profile image
    PerfectPhase

    ,magicalclick wrote

    @W3bbo:

    ??? how would you get memory leak on C#? Aside from using too much memory.

    Here's a way

     this.Click += (s,e) => { MessageBox.Show(
           ((MouseEventArgs)e).Location.ToString());};

     

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    ,W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    And a managed IE would mean you couldn't have things like JIT Javascript compilation (because that requires the ability to manage memory pages and their permission flags directly).

    Not necessarily, it's possible to generate IL on the fly and then have the .NET runtime perform the JIT to native code.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    @AndyC: Does Silverlight on WP7 support Reflection.Emit?

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    ,Sven Groot wrote

    @AndyC: Does Silverlight on WP7 support Reflection.Emit?

    Absolutely no idea, it's supported in Silverlight but I can't see an obvious way of determining if it's supported on the phone. My point, however, was more that it would be a method by which a JITter could be supported, without resorting to exposing low-level manipulation of memory pages and so on. It would probably require some additional sandboxing though, to prevent code accessing phone functionality it's not supposed to.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,KDawg wrote

    *snip* 

    If I'm patient until BUILD will all be revealed then?  Or does this require post-BUILD patience? Smiley

    They talk of days for which they sit and wait. All will be revealed.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,felix9 wrote

    @kettchhttp://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-gives-windows-phone-developers-a-refreshed-non-rtm-mango-build/10201

    *snip*

    so 7.5 is the version for consumers/marketing and 7.1 is the version for developers/technical ?

    If its really like 'Windows 7' and 'NT 6.1', even developers/MSDN docs should refer to it as 'Windows 7', while '6.1' is only used in code when you want to check the version, but 'Windows Phone 7.1' is in the SDK and docs, huh.

    even ms guys use them interchangably. do you use 'Windows 6.1' so often ?

    http://blogs.msdn.com/search/searchresults.aspx?q=phone+7.1
    http://blogs.msdn.com/search/searchresults.aspx?q=phone+7.5

    and Wikipedia is confused http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Windows_Phone_7.5

    There's also some confusion in naming the latest drop of the Windows Phone SDK. In the release notes, the SDK is called "Windows Phone SDK 7.1 Beta 2 Refresh", but the installer calls it "Windows Phone SDK 7.1 RC".

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    ,kettch wrote

    @magicalclick: If you aren't properly disposing your objects or don't release references to objects, the GC might not be able to tell when you are done with them and won't collect them.

    I guess just a different way of wording. I don't consider that as memory leak because you can always aceess the data, thus, I called that using too much memory.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    IDWMaster

    And I would also like to clarify that I am by no means saying that .NET is inherently slow. I'm just saying that there are certain cases in which native code makes more sense to use (i.e existing libraries, more direct hardware interaction, memory management, etc.). In this example; I had relied on an OpenAL library that I had attempted to port to XNA to stream audio. The point is; there's a good time for managed code, and a good time for native code (or as some people put it; unmanaged code); which is why they should allow both.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @IDWMaster:

    I know what you mean, but, still, a cell phone is a cell phone. I much prefer managed locked-in for my cell phone. If not, I will switch to a cell-phone that doesn't allow native programing.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    ,kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Allowing legacy apps to run on Windows Phone 7 would have been disasterous for the platform. Right now the migration path is managed code. If enterprises need to port LOB applications, then that is the way forward. Mango even includes the ability to distribute private applications via the marketplace. I think that there are more advantages to distributing private applications via the marketplace than there are negatives. It means that you just have to publish, and all of your users get the update.

    WP isn't going anywhere. I understand that there are rumors about a future version of WP running on a Windows core. I don't see how that equates to breaking compatibility. If anything it increases the number of places you can run your app. Publish once, and your app runs on phones, desktops and tablets. There's nothing wrong with that IMO.

    It doesn't matter how "correct" MS's decision making was. They tried to reduce roadblocks to WP adoption (and complaints from enterprise customers) by spinning this bogus future that never happened. It's this academic attitude that I find so distasteful coming out of Microsoft these days (and no I'm not saying that you work for MS, just that your comments are like theirs).

    Funny, I haven't heard any rumors of WP running on a Windows core. If that's the case and all of those layers are "free" from a performance point of view I sure hope Google and HP beat MS to the punch and get their mobile OS APIs running on Windows. Microsoft has proven time and time again to be an untrustworthy partner.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    TomboRombo

    @kettch: I agree with you completely on this.   I want a secure managed phone that does not allow low level hacks to ruin the product.   

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