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WinRT API, it will go the way of gadgets!

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  • User profile image
    PeterDouglas

    Beside myself, I know many and know personally 3 programmers who will never ever touch WinRT because of the lock-in. That you must ask Microsoft for permission to distribute your program AND give them 30% of it AND forced to be a public application.

    Developers are jumping ship right and left.

    If this trend continues in Windows 9, Windows 8 won't be just another Vista but Microsoft will go the way of IBM. It might already be too late.

    I no longer TRUST Microsoft. That is a HUGE issue which Microsoft isn't seeing here.

    When your developers are jumping ships, it is the beginning of the end.

    But of course, this being Channel 9, the den of unpolite fools, most regulars will never understand it.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , PeterDouglas wrote

    Beside myself, I know many and know personally 3 programmers who will never ever touch WinRT because of the lock-in. That you must ask Microsoft for permission to distribute your program AND give them 30% of it AND forced to be a public application.

    Developers are jumping ship right and left.

    If this trend continues in Windows 9, Windows 8 won't be just another Vista but Microsoft will go the way of IBM. It might already be too late.

    I no longer TRUST Microsoft. That is a HUGE issue which Microsoft isn't seeing here.

    When your developers are jumping ships, it is the beginning of the end.

    Wow! 3 whole programmers? Microsoft is in serious trouble!

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    @PeterDouglas:

    You can do internal app that doesn't cost money. If you want to sell your app, yeah, you have to go through MS.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , PeterDouglas wrote

    But of course, this being Channel 9, the den of unpolite fools, most regulars will never understand it.

    I refer you to C9's T&Cs:

    http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Copyright/Default.aspx#EUC

    Please try and show a little respect when posting on C9 (and that goes for C9 regulars as well). Being polite costs nothing and makes the forum a nicer place.

    If you don't like C9, you are not compelled to stay. The exit is marked in red in the top right hand corner of your screen.

  • User profile image
    Richard.Hein

    , PeterDouglas wrote

    But of course, this being Channel 9, the den of unpolite fools, most regulars will never understand it.

    Normally I try to avoid flame wars, but let's clarify a few things here. 

    First of all, you have only interacted with a few Niners, and you are generalizing, aiming your insults at all of us.  Ask yourself what that says about you.

    Second, in your first post here, you were like someone barging into a room where a bunch of people are relaxing and chatting and arguing about stuff, and you shout out an offer of $500 bucks to the entire room of anywhere from 100's to 60,000 people to do something that you state no one has been able to do, and then wait for someone to jump at it?  No, everyone just sees that and sees that it requires them to drop what they are doing and listen to this rude guy that thinks waving his hands in the air promising cash, which by the way is no incentive for nearly every programmer I know.  Not because it's low, it is, but because money is not the goal of a programmer when they are helping someone.  Since you don't understand that you are really not one of us, believe me, and I sure as heck am not going to drop what I am doing to solve your problem for you when you act like that.  No one else wanted to drop what they were doing to try to help you either.  Maybe they would have if you had of politely asked for help, because some of us like helping people. 

    Third, you didn't get an answer and instead of thinking through why that may be, you start ranting and throwing insults at everyone for not jumping to help you, thinking this kind of challenge should get a positive response.  Yeah, sure that's really a good idea.  Why do you think we'd just scoff at you? 

    So, bottom line, being a belligerent arse is not going to get you any help here, and you won't get a shred of respect by acting the way you have. 

    Fourth, get lost.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    While there is no excuse for bad behavior you have to accept the fact that in the realm of nerds and geeks there are many with disabilities such as those on the autism/Asperger's spectrum. Add language and culture differences to the mix and communication gets a little tense sometimes.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    While there is no excuse for bad behavior you have to accept the fact that in the realm of nerds and geeks there are many with disabilities such as those on the autism/Asperger's spectrum. Add language and culture differences to the mix and communication gets a little tense sometimes.

    Not an excuse for lack of manners and civility. I had a programmer that was rude and disruptive to the team, maybe he had one of those syndromes. I had to "let him go", and I didn't care about the reason why he was behaving like that. The health of my team was much more important than his.

    Translate the anecdote to this forum and you'll see what is happening and why.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Wow! 3 whole programmers? Microsoft is in serious trouble!

    Yeah... one jumps to the left, one jumps to the right. The other one just jumps. At least he backs up his "developers jumping ship left and right"

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Really?

    Hard to believe you would use the vendor lock-in strategy for starting a flame war here. At least try something a bit more intelligent and reasoned...

    Every platform vendor supplies a platform-specific programming surface and application model. This is of course true for Google (Android SDK), Apple (CocoaTouch and Cocoa) and Microsoft (WinRT in the Windows 8 case).

    Come on...

    C

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Anyone who thinks a 30% cut is excessive has apparently never sold anything through an actual store before. If you can get something into a bricks and mortar store and 30% of the retail price is actually going to you, you'd be extremely lucky.

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    @AndyC: Even if you went direct, you would still have to pay all kinds of hosting fees, and figure out a marketing strategy that aligns with your direct sales model. And if the app picks up even a modest amount of steam the rate goes down to 20%.

    -Josh

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    If you do think you could do better with your own billing, in-app purchases aren't required to go through Microsoft billing services or give Microsoft any cut, so there's still the freemium route ... 

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , JoshRoss wrote

    @AndyC: Even if you went direct, you would still have to pay all kinds of hosting fees, and figure out a marketing strategy that aligns with your direct sales model.

    -Josh

    You have to do this with WinRT apps as well. What is the impression here? That once you publish something on the Appstore, your app will be automatically a success? That Microsoft will hype your application for free?

    This may work in the early days of Win 8, but if Win 8 becomes indeed successful, the appstore will be flooded with apps and your program will drown in the app flood.

    You need a marketing strategy and a website to promote your app anyway. And now, with the forced appstore, you can't just sell your app on your website (which you still NEED to have to promote the app), together with all the marketing and hosting fees you need to pay Microsoft an additional 30% cut, too.

    Sucks. The appstore as such isn't the problem, the FORCED appstore sure is.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Sucks. The appstore as such isn't the problem, the FORCED appstore sure is.

    The appstore isn't forced for desktop.

    And free Metro app -> in-app-upgrade lets you take 100% of the profit home yourself too.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    @wastingtimewithforums: The cost of running a simple website to promote your app is borderline insignificant compared with the costs associated with setting up the infrastructure to handle payments securely, dealing with customer complaints, preventing piracy and many of the other services that a sales infrastructure needs.

    Not to mention the significant benefits that come from selling in a 'store' that customers have already built up a trusted relationship with. Plenty of people wouldn't think twice about buying a cheap application from Amazon, for example, but would be very hesitant to buy that same application direct from some website they just happened to find in Google. And such a store is more likely to be a go-to place for many people than anywhere else. There's a reason most business, even online, goes through stores like Amazon, eBay, iTunes and now the Windows Store rather than companies selling direct-to-consumer through their own website - it's been demonstrated over and over to be a more effective strategy.

    But, as evildictator points out, if it offends you that much you can always try the freemium approach instead. Then you get to sell through the Windows Store and never have to hand a single cent over to Microsoft if you really don't want to. Or stick to desktop applications.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    Charles - can we ban this guy? He obviously has no intention of doing anything but trolling.

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    , AndyC wrote

    Anyone who thinks a 30% cut is excessive has apparently never sold anything through an actual store before. If you can get something into a bricks and mortar store and 30% of the retail price is actually going to you, you'd be extremely lucky.

    I'm really not sure how the analogy is relevant. You set a starting cost, then a brick and mortar store ups the price in order to pay for the costs of running business and to gain a profit. Microsoft on the other hand has a fee for potential customers to enter the store -- the price of a copy of a Windows OS -- and has relatively small costs per each app added to the store, since the space required for one app on their server doesn't really amount to much. Microsoft is closer to a wholesaler w/ a membership fee and very little marginal cost.

  • User profile image
    Maddus Mattus

    , PaoloM wrote

    Not an excuse for lack of manners and civility. I had a programmer that was rude and disruptive to the team, maybe he had one of those syndromes. I had to "let him go", and I didn't care about the reason why he was behaving like that. The health of my team was much more important than his.

    Translate the anecdote to this forum and you'll see what is happening and why.

    At least try to help the poor man! Everyone needs a coach.

    And that's not what's happening here, here we constructively try to help everybody.

    In this thread Richard is helping Peter to become a better Niner. With the promise that when he behaves the way we expect, he will get the help he needs.

    So I don't think your anecdote applies to Peter and Channel9 at all.

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