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Windows 8 Apps: Xaml vs. HTML5

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  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Any good Xaml versus HTML5 posts/essays/whatever anywhere? Can't seem to find any.

    I'm just interested because I think Xaml would be more RAD than HTML5 would be. Just watching even the BUILD videos there's so much JavaScript UI snippets and code that just makes my head hurt. Doing Xaml in Blend for example just seems like it would be quicker and less hands on.

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    Whats' the main argument for proprietory development platforms and design paradigms?

    "HTML5 is a load of bollocks" works for me.

     

  • User profile image
    cbae

    Speaking of Xaml, has anybody looked that the automatic code generation for WPF pages?

            public void InitializeComponent() {
                if (_contentLoaded) {
                    return;
                }
                _contentLoaded = true;
                System.Uri resourceLocater = new System.Uri("/WPFControlLib;component/usercontrol1.xaml", System.UriKind.Relative);
                
                #line 1 "..\..\UserControl1.xaml"
                System.Windows.Application.LoadComponent(this, resourceLocater);
                
                #line default
                #line hidden
            }

    "resourceLocater"? Seriously, Microsoft?

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Agree on the "bullocks", but that's not firepower for enterprise apps Smiley

    Just asked because I just watched a BUILD video on Win 8 apps and HTML5 and good Lord there was a lot of event JavaScript stuff they had to throw in, but I can see it would be a lot easier in C# for some of that stuff(a.k.a. quicker and cheaper)

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Frankly, by the time you've integrated calls into all the Metro stuff I really don't see the point in torturing yourself with JS, it's not exactly going to end up cross-platform anyway. You're essentially writing a platform specific app, so using tools that favour that platform just seems so much more sensible to me.

    But then I find the whole JS/HTML/CSS thing abhorrent anyway, so I may be biased. Smiley

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @AndyC: If you want to go cross platform, build a website, why tie yourself to a single platform?

    Ultimately they want to draw developers to the platform, but most of these developers want maximum reach, especially since WinRT apps written in JavaScript won't run on an iPad or Android tablet.

    What Microsoft should have done is double their development team to focus on their desktop heritage, and the new unproven tablet and phone. that way they would keep their core business happy, whilst taking the gamble on tablets and phones.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , vesuvius wrote

    @AndyC: If you want to go cross platform, build a website, why tie yourself to a single platform?

    Ultimately they want to draw developers to the platform, but most of these developers want maximum reach, especially since WinRT apps written in JavaScript won't run on an iPad or Android tablet.

    But apps that run on iOS don't run on Android or vice versa. There are 7 billion people in this world. Knowing that I can't possibly reach all 7 billion people is nothing that I'm too concerned about. You've got to pick your niche when it comes to software, and if the niche is defined by not only the domain only but also the platform, then so be it.

    What Microsoft should have done is double their development team to focus on their desktop heritage, and the new unproven tablet and phone. that way they would keep their core business happy, whilst taking the gamble on tablets and phones.

    I don't know why doubling their resources is necessary. They obviously devoted considerable resources to WinRT and tooling for Metro-style apps while neglecting WPF, but Silverlight recently received a refresh with its new out-of-browser capabilities (i.e. child windows, etc.). It looks like Silverlight is intended to replace WPF. Everybody is asking "Is Silverlight dead?" when the question to be asked should be "Is WPF dead?"

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

     

    But apps that run on iOS don't run on Android or vice versa. There are 7 billion people in this world. Knowing that I can't possibly reach all 7 billion people is nothing that I'm too concerned about. You've got to pick your niche when it comes to software, and if the niche is defined by not only the domain only but also the platform, then so be it.

    Which is why the HTML5 announcements are hot air, why make a song and dance on something most web developers are likely to ditch for a browser because of reach. Even the interns that made the app at build will either get work at Microsoft, or ditch their HTML 5 efforts, for a website that can be consumed on Windows, IOS and Android.

     

    I don't know why doubling their resources is necessary. They obviously devoted considerable resources to WinRT and tooling for Metro-style apps while neglecting WPF, but Silverlight recently received a refresh with its new out-of-browser capabilities (i.e. child windows, etc.). It looks like Silverlight is intended to replace WPF. Everybody is asking "Is Silverlight dead?" when the question to be asked should be "Is WPF dead?"

    This just isn't a framework thing, they need to continue to make the desktop exciting, and revolutionary, for the bulk of users that don't want the tablet UI forced on them. Windows is quite a nice place (especially Windows 7). I'm not quite sure what you have smoking away in your pipe saying that Silverlight would replace WPF when Silverlight is in fact WPF/E (everywhere), its a completely absurd assertion.

    The software world has moved on with Apple and Google gaining market share, and Microsoft still trying to use the same amount of resources to develop desktop, server, and the mobile tablets and phones. They are starting to look stretched resource-wise and unable to adapt or keep up the pace.

  • User profile image
    exoteric

    It's not about what software stack is most well-designed, it's an entirely pragmatic way to look at things: to embrace the skills of Web developers to be able to create desktop applications for Windows with minimal effort. That's has to be the simple, obvious conclusion.

    It also puts Windows ahead of iOS in the sense that it will become more Web friendly than iOS. Android is likely in the same boat as iOS in this respect.

    This is embrace and extend for the Web.

    Makes sense to me.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    Since I don't care to learn XAML or WPF or whatever the hell it is called these days, but I have a ton of experience with HTML and JavaScript the choice is pretty obvious for me.

    @exoteric

    iOS and Android are very web friendly... you can write whole (store) apps in nothing but JS and HTML5 and they have APIs that let you control the hardware from JavaScript.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    If you can make HTML5 apps that run on iOS, Android and Windows then why would you want to use Windows-only API's and limit yourself to one platform?

  • User profile image
    davewill

    Doesn't HTML 5 still suffer from the same problem as previous HTML?  I.E. doesn't it only work if all the vendors interpret the specification in exactly the same way.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    @davewill: These days there are a lot more browser developers so the spec is a lot more detailed now.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , ZippyV wrote

    If you can make HTML5 apps that run on iOS, Android and Windows then why would you want to use Windows-only API's and limit yourself to one platform?

    Why does almost everybody use a Facebook app on their phone (regardless of OS) when the website is just as available? The answer is the same in both cases: the end user experience is much richer when you work with a native app than can ever be accomplished in a browser alone and a better experience draws more customers.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @AndyC: It is curious why people still stick with the website in a browser on the desktop. On the phone it is a necessity because of the small screen, so most facebook programs on phones are applications full of shortcuts, that allow you to upload images very quickly, read your wall quickly, in fact do pretty much everything quicker, this is not the case on a desktop with a large screen, keyboard  and mouse.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    @vesuvius:True, but I don't think I've ever seen a desktop facebook app either. Maybe if one existed and did a good job, I'd use that over the website.

  • User profile image
    timmewinsa

    interesting as a lot of twitter (power) users use tweet deck and Facebook is going the same way...  anyway I'm interested in whether to develop 7 learn HTML5 over xaml based stuff...  has anyone any good references...?  for me it's about what the end user experience delivers as that's what people buy into... end users don;t care about the effort and cost of development....  do I go HTML5 or employee iOS/Android/WP developers seperately?... 

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    @timmewinsa:IMO At the moment cross platform phone apps developed using HTML5 are likely to be a compromise in terms of getting the best out of the mobile platform - but the plus side is you only have to have a single HTML5 savvy team or person!  The argument for proprietory is you will get the best out of the platform, in terms of bling and performance, but at the cost of multiple development teams/people.

    My advice is to talk to a developer who understands the jist of what it is you are trying to achieve.  If it is not too complex then HTML5 may well be the way to go.

     

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