Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @cbae: Nope; I don't see a problem with that. You seem fixated on giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and make yourself feel better by narrowing the scope. You see a problem with that?

    And technically this tablet did ship with Windows 8. Smiley

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    You're installing Windows 8 on a machine that didn't ship with Windows 8

    So what? The driver model and kernel is pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations. (NT 6.2)

    And it's still a general purpose OS, right? So it should work on ANY PC that can run Vista/7 well. Period. The great Sinofsky promised it:

    Windows 8 is designed from the ground up to be an amazing upgrade (or clean install) for any PC that runs Windows 7
    Steven S. September 14, 2011 5:00 AM

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/experiencing-windows-8-touch-on-windows-7-hardware.aspx

  • User profile image
    OrigamiCar

    @DeathByVisualStudio:

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Wow! Big improvements in W8 RTM! I upgraded my build tablet (uber clean, all partitions deleted, install from USB) to W8 Enterprise RTM about an hour ago I just experienced my first BSOD -- "INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE" No W8 wasn't rushed out the door... Exciting days to come! Can't wait for WP8 based on the same kernel...

    Installed W8 RTM on my build tablet three days ago and have yet to experience any blue screen at all (had plenty of them during the three different preview versions), so I think you were just a bit unlucky or W8 didn't identify and install the correct driver quite quickly enough during initial install.

    Only issue I'm having with RTM on the build tablet is the screen doesn't auto rotate.
    I could sit here * and blame Microsoft, "Wah Wah, Windows 8 sucks and is going to be a disaster because it doesn't support my exact specific piece of hardware out of the box with no intervention from me", or I could realise that this device was not a product that was aimed at Windows 8 end consumers, was shipped to us developers almost a full year before Windows 8 was finished and so may not be quite as smooth in usage as the devices that will be shipped to consumers in a few months with Windows 8....

    ...I choose the latter.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @wastingtimewithforums: Oh yeah I forgot about that! And the bit about having 450M W8 customers available to developers (assuming the W7 users upgrade) because a W7 capable machine was a W8 machine almost by default. LOL. That's about as much of a chuckle as "No Compromise".

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @OrigamiCar: My tablet rotates just fine. I'd blame Microsoft if I were you. They gave you a defective tablet! OMG! Scared

    Sorry you and cbae both continue to miss my point. I tired of explaining it so I'm done here. Enjoy your glass half full.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    So what? The driver model and kernel is pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations. (NT 6.2)

    Windows Vista/7 use WDDM 1.1 and Windows 8 uses WDDM 1.2, so you're already wrong there.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    @OrigamiCar: My tablet rotates just fine. I'd blame Microsoft if I were you. They gave you a defective tablet! OMG! Scared

    Sorry you and cbae both continue to miss my point. I tired of explaining it so I'm done here. Enjoy your glass half full.

    Your only point is the tell us all about how displeased you are with Windows 8. We've gotten this point about 50 threads ago.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

     I tired of explaining it so I'm done here.

    Bye! Smiley

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Windows Vista/7 use WDDM 1.1 and Windows 8 uses WDDM 1.2, so you're already wrong there.

    Big deal, 0.1

    "pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations" fits the description.

    From the horse's mouth: "How is the product compatibility determined?" - "Windows 8 Release Preview is designed with compatibility in mind. If an app or device ran on Windows 7, our goal is that it should run on Windows 8."
    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/en-us/CompatCenter/FAQ

     

    "so you're already wrong there."

    Alright? So Sinofsky's own frigging words don't count anymore?

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Did anyone called the whaaaaambulance already?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    , PaoloM wrote

    Did anyone called the whaaaaambulance already?

    I lost the number Sad

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    Big deal, 0.1

    "pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations" fits the description.

    From the horse's mouth: "How is the product compatibility determined?" - "Windows 8 Release Preview is designed with compatibility in mind. If an app or device ran on Windows 7, our goal is that it should run on Windows 8."
    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/en-us/CompatCenter/FAQ

     

    "so you're already wrong there."

    Alright? So Sinofsky's own frigging words don't count anymore?

    A kernel-mode driver isn't an app or device.

     

    DBVS might be wrong about people's grandmas (who will only be getting OEM versions of Windows), but he is right that Microsoft shouldn't be shipping with drivers that KO the system.

    Hopefully Microsoft will be able to diagnose which driver is at fault and patch this via WU soon.

    I'm somewhat surprised that if this tablet is the one given out at Build that Microsoft haven't noticed this before - surely lots of MS employees have those tablets and will have noticed the same thing?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    A kernel-mode driver isn't an app or device.

    Windows 8 is designed from the ground up to be an amazing upgrade (or clean install) for any PC that runs Windows 7

    Hey, I am only the messenger. Some execs should maybe just stop over-promising.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , ZippyV wrote

    *snip*

    I lost the number Sad

     

    (Sorry, I had to really)

     

  • User profile image
    cbae

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

     

     

    (Sorry, I had to really)

     

    ...3

    LOL

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or
  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    I'm somewhat surprised that if this tablet is the one given out at Build that Microsoft haven't noticed this before - surely lots of MS employees have those tablets and will have noticed the same thing?

    Unless, of course, it's a very obscure bug that he's just been incredibly unlucky to hit. Or a conflict with something else installed on the system. Or, heaven forbid, the result of an actual hardware fault with his machine.

    But far better to simply assume every Windows 8 machine will suffer identically and then whine about it on the internets.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , AndyC wrote

    *snip*

    Unless, of course, it's a very obscure bug that he's just been incredibly unlucky to hit. Or a conflict with something else installed on the system. Or, heaven forbid, the result of an actual hardware fault with his machine.

    But far better to simply assume every Windows 8 machine will suffer identically and then whine about it on the internets.

    It is a very obscure bug (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE) that he's been very unlucky to hit.

    That said, the particular bugcheck is not caused by a hardware fault - it is most likely caused by a thread trying to access a resource owned by another thread, and then the second thread dying before the lock is released. It could be caused by memory corruption or hardware failure, but I strongly doubt it. It's more likely a bad driver.

    I take a dim view on bugs. Yes, DBVS can at times be unnecessarily sarcastic and can sometimes come across badly, but that doesn't stop the fact that in his experience of installing Windows8 out-of-the-box on Microsoft-provided hardware, this caused a bugcheck before he could really do anything.

    Microsoft needs to fix that bug - not so much because it'll hit grannies (it won't) or because it's going to affect a ton of people (nobody else seems to have noticed it), but because it is a denial-of-service bug in a released product that is affecting a legitimate customer's ability to use it.

    Over the next few weeks Microsoft will be peering very closely into the watson database to find and patch vulnerabilities on Win8, so here's me hoping that it gets fixed soon - even if it means retracting the driver and telling the driver vendor (who is probably not Microsoft) to build a fixed one.

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