Coffeehouse Thread

177 posts

Windows 8 flops, and Microsoft are to blame

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    It's certainly not a "nonsense argument", have *you* tried RDP with a touch device?  Try it with Server 2008 R2 and Server 2012 then come tell me what you think. 

    I have been personally doing this on no less than four different tablets. Again, the touchscreen does very little for productivity once you get past the Start Screen. It can be used in a pinch, but is nowhere near as productive and efficient as using a keyboard and mouse. In this respect, I have found Windows Server 2008 servers the same effort to administer as Windows Server 2012 since both still use the same classic interface.

  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    And I never said, "need to use a touch device", you can just as easily use a keyboard and mouse and use the start key on the keyboard, or the RDP window context menu, or CTRL-ESC, or use your bloody mouse in the corner or swipe down the side to get the charms, oh it's SO HARD.

    The point was that those without a keyboard and mouse and only a touch screen need it.

    Good point. What I'm saying is that such a thing will work in a pinch, but I would never use that sort of a setup for day to day administration of servers. I've tried it and my experience is that it's way too slow and cumbersome. Why not just use a hybrid or laptop?

  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    And I would hardly say the "GUI is optimized for consumer devices", touch is a user interface mode, and it's not going away, ever, and it's not just for consumer devices.  That's just the same as saying the GUI is not required on a server *ever* (sometimes you don't need it, ok, but most of the time, you do), and a mouse and keyboard were only ever for "consumer" devices - nonsense - it's a user input device, like a mouse and keyboard, and you need to interact with a Server as well.

    Voice recognition and video capture are also forms of user interface. However, we have known for years that each type of UI has it's place. That's why voice recognition it useful, or prefered, in some scenarios  but it's never become the primary method on servers or desktops (or even mobile devices thus far).

    A UI needs to make the user more efficient in interacting with the machine. Touch doesn't always do that in the desktop or server environments.

  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , JuanZamudio wrote

    I'm having a love/hate relationship with Win8 but being able to transfer files directly from my machine to the server using the RDP Client is the reason I'm not going back to Win7.

    You don't need Windows 8 and Server 2012 to do this. We've been able to copy and paste files via RDP for years with Server 2008 and Win 7.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , Retro‚ÄčRecursion wrote

    *snip*

    You don't need Windows 8 and Server 2012 to do this. We've been able to copy and paste files via RDP for years with Server 2008 and Win 7.

    It's not even a function of the O/S per-se, but of the RDP client and service. You could even do this XP to XP.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , elmer wrote

    It's not even a function of the O/S per-se, but of the RDP client and service. 

    The RDP service is part of the OS :/

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    It's not just the charms, etc that's wrong with the Windows 8 Store App environment being put on the server. The start screen, charms, etc absolutely suck on a low bandwidth RDP connection. If Microsoft's long game for server is me staring at live tiles and scroll, scroll, scrolling along the start screen to see the status of my server they are out of their minds.

    Really ignorant people can say that us whiners can just kill the GUI for our servers but they of course overlook one of the best aspects of Windows Server administration: the GUI tools made it easier and cheaper for companies to get support without having to shell out big bucks for some command-line guru. Crappy tools make even the best OS, server, IDE, etc. crappy no matter how stellar the underpinnings are.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: One thing that often gets overlooked is that many of the main GUI tools are being made available to run on the client. I rarely have to RDP into my 208 R2 servers anymore and this will only get better. There's still a few edge cases in my environment, but overall I'm happy. A bonus is that the primary system I run on top of my servers is completely manageable remotely.

  • User profile image
    JuanZamudio

    I stand corrected, i tested on Win7 and it works, I don't know how I never noticed (also tested on XP, it doesn't work).

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: One thing that often gets overlooked is that many of the main GUI tools are being made available to run on the client. I rarely have to RDP into my 208 R2 servers anymore and this will only get better. There's still a few edge cases in my environment, but overall I'm happy. A bonus is that the primary system I run on top of my servers is completely manageable remotely.

    And another thing that gets overlooked is that those same client tools for servers perform poorly over that same slow network connection. I find RDP'ing to a server with all of the GUI animations and themes disabled (easily via RDP settings) provides a much faster interface for troubleshooting. Ever tried reviewing the Windows event log via client-side server tools over that same slow network connection? Not fun.

  • User profile image
    Deactivated User

    Comment removed at user's request.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , JuanZamudio wrote

    (also tested on XP, it doesn't work).

    I seem to recall being able to do it.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300698

  • User profile image
    elmer

    Here's a curious article, but I somehow doubt this actually means what they are suggesting.

    http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-possibly-working-letting-user-disable-start-screen

  • User profile image
    JuanZamudio

    @elmer: I tried on two machines and in both didn't work, even the Paste command in the context menu was disabled, weird.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    @JuanZamudio:  By default, I think that XP came with RDC client V5.1, but I'm pretty sure you can download and install all the way up to V7.0 of the RDC client on WinXP-SP3, which has essentially all of the current client features.

    XP to XP remote desktop should be as MS describe, even for V5.1.

    XP to something else (like a server) may depend on the level of client it supports and how the RDP service is configured, but this should be fixable by upgrading the RDC client.

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.