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Windows 8.1 RTM delayed for MSDN/Technet Subscribers?

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  • User profile image
    Jim Young

    , bondsbw wrote

    And I can't consider Intel vs. PowerPC to show the advantages or disadvantages of either platform.  I'm sure that if Apple chose Intel and Microsoft/IBM chose PowerPC, we would all be using PowerPC computers right now.  We might even be using PowerPC phones and tablets instead of ARM.

    Apple was compelled to go with Intel for a number of technical reasons. PowerPC was not able to provide the low heat and low power CPUs required to address the challenges Apple was facing from Intel based Windows machines.

     

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    , Jim Young wrote

    *snip*

    I always assumed that compilers for CISC were easier to write and have better performance because the instruction set was much more high level than RISC. For example multiplication is a single instruction in x86 while the RISC approach takes four.

    Nope, it's easy for a compiler to spit out four instructions instead of one. It's much, much harder to deal with the typically non-orthogonal register usage of CISC designs, not to mention that optimising around big complex instructions is actually much harder to do.

    x86 won out despite everything, including Intel's various attempts to kill it, because there is an enormous amount of x86 software out there that people need to run.

  • User profile image
    Jim Young

    , AndyC wrote

    *snip*

    Nope, it's easy for a compiler to spit out four instructions instead of one. It's much, much harder to deal with the typically non-orthogonal register usage of CISC designs, not to mention that optimising around big complex instructions is actually much harder to do.

    Good to know. The part about optimizing around complex instructions makes a lot of sense.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , Jim Young wrote

    *snip*

    Apple was compelled to go with Intel for a number of technical reasons. PowerPC was not able to provide the low heat and low power CPUs required to address the challenges Apple was facing from Intel based Windows machines. 

    Yeah, and I'm not pushing support behind PowerPC... I never dealt with it directly, and I frankly don't care which company comes out on top.  But really ARM is a better example, to the point that today I wouldn't be surprised if they have more device shipments than Intel.

  • User profile image
    jcsharp

    I am developing apps that require functionality only available in Windows 8.1. Not having access to the RTM build early is a major annoyance given the quirks of the Preview release. Sad

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    The only reason I can think of why Windows 8.1 isn't released to developers is because they want to finish Visual Studio 2013 first so they can release both products at the same time.

    If that's the case I can live with Microsoft's decision.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or
  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    @evildictaitor: They don't say anything about Visual Studio 2013 which you need if you want to create an Windows Store App for 8.1.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    I still want to know upgrade options from VS2012 to VS2013.  Is that upgrade path free?  Why hasn't Microsoft made an announcement?

    This should have been clarified months ago.  "Why does it matter?" you might ask.  Because our company just finally got the go-ahead via contract to purchase VS2012.  That took enough teeth-pulling that there is no way that we will get VS2013 if it costs extra money.

    Without knowing that detail, we are left to assume the cost is non-free, and thus had no interest in installing the VS2013 preview just to have to downgrade later.  Microsoft just missed a good opportunity for feedback from any group in the same position as us.

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    Yeah, +1 to that. The lack of any information on what the new faster release cycle will mean from a cost POV is kind of disturbing.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    , bondsbw wrote

    I still want to know upgrade options from VS2012 to VS2013.  Is that upgrade path free?  Why hasn't Microsoft made an announcement?

    This should have been clarified months ago.  "Why does it matter?" you might ask.  Because our company just finally got the go-ahead via contract to purchase VS2012.  That took enough teeth-pulling that there is no way that we will get VS2013 if it costs extra money.

    Without knowing that detail, we are left to assume the cost is non-free, and thus had no interest in installing the VS2013 preview just to have to downgrade later.  Microsoft just missed a good opportunity for feedback from any group in the same position as us.

    Can you buy VS2012 without an MSDN sub?

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @spivonious: Yes.  I think our company purchased it this way through a vendor.

    Microsoft is obviously quickening their release pace.  At the same time, the differences between versions is shrinking to almost the service pack level (most notably the small jump from .NET 4.5 to 4.5.1).

    So, it would make sense that this be considered a "minor upgrade" and priced accordingly, or even free for purchasers of VS 2012.  (Like the Win 8 -> 8.1 upgrade)

  • User profile image
    eddwo

    @bondsbw: Dont' forget that Generic Forum Image

    Generic Forum Image

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    , bondsbw wrote

    @spivonious: Yes.  I think our company purchased it this way through a vendor.

    Microsoft is obviously quickening their release pace.  At the same time, the differences between versions is shrinking to almost the service pack level (most notably the small jump from .NET 4.5 to 4.5.1).

    So, it would make sense that this be considered a "minor upgrade" and priced accordingly, or even free for purchasers of VS 2012.  (Like the Win 8 -> 8.1 upgrade)

    I agree, but MS is also moving to subscription-based sales (Office 365, Azure, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if they stopped selling VS2013 at retail. We all have MSDN Pro subscriptions at work. It is very nice to go out and grab the latest versions of everything as soon as they're released.

  • User profile image
    Kental2

    @spivonious: You don't think it would hurt a segment of the market to jump from free to $1200 ($800 renewal) with nothing inbetween?  Don't get me wrong, I think express is pretty nice, but that gap is really, really large.

  • User profile image
    cheong

    , spivonious wrote

    I agree, but MS is also moving to subscription-based sales (Office 365, Azure, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if they stopped selling VS2013 at retail. We all have MSDN Pro subscriptions at work. It is very nice to go out and grab the latest versions of everything as soon as they're released.

    My current company don't have MSDN subscription. The VS2008 and VS2010 we currently use are retail copies. It'll create more resistance for my company to move on in the future if Microsoft completely moved to subscription based model without proper adjustment to the price tag.

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