Coffeehouse Thread

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Windows 8.1 looks interesting

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  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Sad That's exactly what I would want along with showing Windows 8 Store Apps on the taskbar -- both as options that the user could enable/disable. For me that would also show they are more committed to the desktop by enabling one it's best features from within the start screen. 

    Meh, why?  If your program is pinned to the taskbar, you don't need to use Start to open it.  If it isn't, you don't need to see the Taskbar.

    Plus it would have to support being docked at any edge, like the desktop does today.

    Plus the default bottom edge is used in Metro mode to enable secondary actions.

    Plus 8.1 has introduced a mode that allows you to pull the tiles down and display the list of all applications.  Where does the taskbar go if it's docked at the bottom?  Where does it go if it's docked at the top?

    Plus the taskbar uses a different UI paradigm, where hovering and right-click menus provide actions.

    Plus the taskbar shows an icon to enable the desktop on-screen keyboard icon, when using a touchscreen; if it takes you back to the desktop, wouldn't that be counter-intuitive?  If it brings the keyboard up on the Metro side, that doesn't make sense unless you can type into something (and Metro apps do this automatically).

    Plus consider that the taskbar can be resized to take up half the screen.  Someone, somewhere, actually does this.

    I not only think this isn't useful, I think it would be a mistake.

  • User profile image
    Proton2

    Win+S currently has a flaw with multiple monitors. It doesn't work on the "Metro" screen. I have to use Win+P and switch to a single monitor first.

  • User profile image
    Craig_​Matthews

    Judging from experience, I half expect Microsoft to say "Well, no one makes screen clippings in OneNote anyway. Deal. And no we won't release a hotfix that lets you change the shortcut key in OneNote. We'd have to support that, OMG." Then Paul Thurrott would write a blog post about how every OneNote user needs to be institutionalized.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @DeathByVisualStudio:  You can't see that there is a different paradigm in what the right-click does in Metro and in desktop.  And I can't help you.

    I'm all for good ideas, but you have a problem in that your one and only criteria for "good" is "desktop".  You sound like people who, in the early 90s, just knew that Windows was going to bomb and DOS would rise back up and show that it was the one true way.

    The iPad doesn't have a Start menu.  Mac OS X doesn't have a Start menu.  Android doesn't have a Start menu.  Windows 8 doesn't have a Start menu.  Why one of these is terrible for this fact, while the others are very successful, is only in your head.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    I don't get the Skydrive integration. I thought all that stuff was already possible. You can now save and load stuff to a Skydrive folder? Then what have I been doing for the past couple of months?

    The hints that desktop apps get to use live tiles is promising. That, and the various bits from the leaked builds sound like WinRT is finally getting some much-needed additions. Looks like I'll be watching those BUILD videos next month.

    Various other interesting bits. I have no idea how Reading Lists are supposed to work, but it sounds interesting. The desktop background being visible in the start menu may make things more smooth, essentially working like Aero Peek. I do wonder it should slightly blur the background, though. All those colorful tiles over a particularly busy background? Hmm.

    Search looks cool, but who is going to use that? It's like those websites and apps that lay out wikipedia articles and such like magazine spreads. Cool, but is anybody really using those?

  • User profile image
    Bas

    They're still not bringing back program manager though, dammit. I just want to be able to see all my applications in many MDI Windows at once. *huff*

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , bondsbw wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio:  You can't see that there is a different paradigm in what the right-click does in Metro and in desktop.  And I can't help you.

    I'm all for good ideas, but you have a problem in that your one and only criteria for "good" is "desktop".  You sound like people who, in the early 90s, just knew that Windows was going to bomb and DOS would rise back up and show that it was the one true way.

    The iPad doesn't have a Start menu.  Mac OS X doesn't have a Start menu.  Android doesn't have a Start menu.  Windows 8 doesn't have a Start menu.  Why one of these is terrible for this fact, while the others are very successful, is only in your head.

    Looks like you win bonds since the C9 censorship police seem to have deleted my posts. I guess, like you, they can't get their heads around the idea that the vast majority of Windows users still use a mouse & keyboard. I never said anything about the removal of touch or the start screen features. I think Microsoft (and it's users) would benefit by not ignoring the mouse & keyboard metaphor that is so prevalent today. It's hard to use the UI of tomorrow when you're not using the hardware of tomorrow.

    And for the record I was glad they brought the start button back because it will make it that much easier for corporate adoption. I didn't go on another diatribe on the start menu. It's dead and gone, Not coming back.

    And yes Microsoft has been very successful in trying to copy the success of others. Oh wait...

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    blowdart

    , Bas wrote

    I don't get the Skydrive integration. I thought all that stuff was already possible. You can now save and load stuff to a Skydrive folder? Then what have I been doing for the past couple of months?

    Not on RT. You need to load into Office, and it caches. Not great for other types of files. I hope it will be clever enough on RT to let you selectively sync. Or push some folders to other drives, I want to sync my music eventually, but that won't fit on my RT device Smiley

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @blowdart: Hopefully the SkyDrive Store app will fall back to the local SkyDrive folder if it can't connect.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I just heard Windows 8.1 introduced a brand new feature called Start Tip. Don't know how to use it yet, will wait for the preview. I guess it is something relates to help or money or something sharp. Of course, my English not so good and I haven't wiki what Tip means.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    , magicalclick wrote

    I just heard Windows 8.1 introduced a brand new feature called Start Tip.

    I think you might be referring to a "Tips and Tricks" app that they're planning on including to get people accustomed to the new interface.

  • User profile image
    Lizard​Rumsfeld

    Still no email indexing by SC search or the desktop in 8.1 sadly.  I don't get it - MS stated that it may be a "possibility" in the "future" when they index the mail stores - but uh, they can do that now, and have been for years on the desktop.

    I guess the reason is that they can't do that with Windows RunTime currently (due to the location of the mail stores in the FS?), so they felt to remove it from the desktop to create some kind of symmetry (albeit one of the rare times Metro and the Desktop have any symmetry unfortunately).  What I can't understand is why Office 2013 removes it from Win7.

    Some things look nice, and the Metro environment definitely needs polish, but I predict a rather vocal backlash once people find out the Start "Button" is that and only that.  The desktop needs polish as well, I really hope that's what they focus on in 8.2.

    To give Win8 some props: I'm now a fan of the ribbon in explorer.  Before I thought it was superfluous, but it really does save me some time.  The implementation is not great, albeit this is subjective but I think it's ugly as sin and there's plenty of space for better layout and optimization, but the fact that I'm opening up far less child windows when performing tasks like viewing hidden files, not accidentally letting go over cntrl when trying to select multiple files and lose all my selections (checkboxes!) - it's overall a good thing.

    The desktop really, really needs an entirely new graphics engine me thinks though.  WPF?  Who knows with MS these days as their "roadmap", and of course compatibility with existing apps is always the bugaboo.  But business workers will not be switching to full-screen apps anytime soon, and we have higher and higher DPI screens on the horizon.  8.1 does very little for scaling on the desktop it appears - it will be more automatic apparently, but it will still look like crap.

    I want 8.2...or perhaps Win9, to give me a "Fast and Fluid" desktop please. Smiley

     

  • User profile image
    elmer

    , bondsbw wrote

    The iPad doesn't have a Start menu.  Mac OS X doesn't have a Start menu.  Android doesn't have a Start menu.  Windows 8 doesn't have a Start menu.  Why one of these is terrible for this fact, while the others are very successful, is only in your head.

    Personally, I live in the desktop all day, and never use metro apps. I would have 30+ apps that I use regularly. About 10 of them are pinned to the taskbar, and the others I fetch from the Start-Menu when I need them. I'm fairly ambivalent about MS's will-we/won't-we approach to the desktop, and just 'fixed' my own requirements by paying the few bucks for Start8.

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    , elmer wrote

    *snip*

    Personally, I live in the desktop all day, and never use metro apps. I would have 30+ apps that I use regularly. 

    I guess no ChromeOS for you... Wink

    Care to share with us your top 10 desktop apps?

    Here's mine:

    1. Chrome
    2. 7zip
    3. vlc
    4. windjview, for some math books i downloaded from bittorrent

    Used to include:

    • MS OFFICE
    • java
    • eclipse
    • vstudio then web matrix
    • cygwin
    • virtualbox

     

  • User profile image
    Harlock123n​ew

    , elmer wrote

    *snip*

     I'm fairly ambivalent about MS's will-we/won't-we approach to the desktop, and just 'fixed' my own requirements by paying the few bucks for Start8.

    I did that as well, and basically I love Windows 8.. Boots fast, runs well on my trailing edge hardware. My old games work well on it. Am thinking of taking the leap and installing it on my work machine.... and 5$ for Start8 is when the whole OS was 80$ seemed fine to me. Perhaps I am just conditioned to shelling out a couple of 100's for the OS....

  • User profile image
    kettch

    I'll reserve judgment on the return of the start button when I find out how much real estate it takes on my task bar. I wonder if there's a way to turn it off? Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    , fanbaby wrote

    *snip*

    I guess no ChromeOS for you... Wink

    Care to share with us your top 10 desktop apps?

    Here's a small sample of my most used desktop apps:

    • Outlook 2013
    • Internet Explorer
    • Windows Media Player
    • File Explorer
    • Skype
    • Word, Excel, OneNote 2013
    • Visual Studio 2012
    • PuTTY
    • Cygwin
    • Eclipse
    • SQL Server Management Studio
    • Notepad++
    • Reflector
    • WinRAR
    • PowerShell / PowerShell ISE
    • Audacity
    • Fraps
    • VirtualDub
    • Steam, Origin, several games

    So yeah, ChromeOS is probably out of the question for the time being. As is Windows RT, at least as a replacement. Both could work for an additional device, I suppose.

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    This is fun. Things currently pinned to my Win7 taskbar at work:

    1. IE
    2. Chrome
    3. Firefox
    4. Explorer
    5. Outlook
    6. Word
    7. Excel
    8. SQL Management Studio
    9. VS2012
    10. Notepad
    11. Paint.NET
    12. BeyondCompare
    13. KeyPass
    14. IIS

    I can't remember what's pinned at home because I'm in metro 95% of the time, even without a touchscreen.

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