Coffeehouse Thread

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Windows Blue should bring back the DVD codecs

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  • wastingtime​withforums

    So, what was the point again to remove the DVD codecs? We've been told they are expensive, ok, so, they are gone. What's the result? The Windows 8 retail pricing is back to normal.

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/productID.266514600

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/productID.264832100

    199$ for pro, 119 for the home version. W7 had the same pricing in case you forgot:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10272259-56.html

    "Microsoft sets Windows 7 pricing, upgrade programs"

    "When boxed copies of Windows 7 go on sale on October 22, Microsoft plans to charge $119 for Home Premium, $199 for Professional"

    I don't know exactly whether OEMs get Windows cheaper now, but fact is, the customer doesn't get the devices cheaper, quite the opposite:

    http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/windows-8-sales-sluggish-npd-group/

    The average selling price (ASP) of a Windows machine has also jumped "significantly" this year, in the firm's estimation, from $433 to $477. That could be due in part to touch-screen laptops, which generally retail at a premium to their non-touch siblings

    The only one who benefitted from the drop of the DVD codecs is MS. Customers pay the same (or more) without any benefit from this move. In fact, they get now advertizing shoved in the face in an OS they bought for their hard earned money instead of a price reduction.

    The lack of the codecs was sort-of ok while the short-lived special upgrade offer was still in place and you were able to get the media pack for free, but now it's unexcusable. Bring them back with blue.

  • magicalclick

    Nah, I think it is better to offer an free or cheap Metro App that plays DVD and BR. That makes the app update a lot easier and movie app is perfect for Metro. What I want from Blue, is to expend Metro in a way that I can replace desktop apps, because I think metro offers a really good app management, just limited at the moment.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • evildictait​or

    Its funny that you complain that Windows is too expensive, and also complain at the same time about Microsoft's attempts to reduce the cost by removing expensive codecs and by subsidising free apps through adverts.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Its funny that you complain that Windows is too expensive, and also complain at the same time about Microsoft's attempts to reduce the cost by removing expensive codecs...

    What reduced costs? Not for the customer for sure!

  • evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    *snip*

    What reduced costs? Not for the customer for sure!

    OMG. You know how money works, right? Like how, if you spend less on one part of a product you get to reduce the price or reinvest the money elsewhere?

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    OMG. You know how money works, right? Like how, if you spend less on one part of a product you get to reduce the price or reinvest the money elsewhere?

    Well, the price hasn't been reduced.

    reinvest the money elsewhere

    So, Microsoft can re-invest the money elsewhere.. how the f.. is that the customer's problem?

    Part of the message why the codecs were removed was because they were expensive. They are removed, the Windows pricing is the same. The customer got shafted.

     

  • evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    So, Microsoft can re-invest the money elsewhere.. how the f.. is that the customer's problem?

    Because it means that the customer then gets better products in future at less cost.

    Part of the message why the codecs were removed was because they were expensive. They are removed, the Windows pricing is the same. The customer got shafted.

    Or the inherent cost of making Windows has gone up, and that removing expensive components has meant that Microsoft didn't have to pass that cost onto consumers.

    Or maybe the reduction in price allowed Microsoft to subsidize Windows to $40 for six months for millions of customers.

    Money is a zero-sum asset. If Microsoft makes Windows more expensive by bundling expensive components, at the end of the day it's the customers who are going to have to pay for it.

  • wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Because it means that the customer then gets better products in future at less cost.

    Like Windows 8 and draconian licensed Office 2013!

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Or the inherent cost of making Windows has gone up, and that removing expensive components has meant that Microsoft didn't have to pass that cost onto consumers.

    This is beyond fanboi. Somehow they were able to still make the pricing EXACTLY the same as the previous version, and ONLY the loss of DVD codec allowed them this? Sure thing.

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Or maybe the reduction in price allowed Microsoft to subsidize Windows to $40 for six months for millions of customers.

    Six months?

    By the way, W7 had reduced pricing on debut as well. And let's lot fool anyone. That pricing was there to up W8's marketshare at all costs, to promote the store and metro (like pretty much all UI additions to W8 do, too). They would have probably done it even with DVD codecs this time.

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Money is a zero-sum asset. If Microsoft makes Windows more expensive by bundling expensive components, at the end of the day it's the customers who are going to have to pay for it.

    You know fully well that the customers gained NOTHING by the loss of the DVD codecs. The only net gain was for MS. Nice: Pricing of the codec-less version is the same as for the previous version with codec, and they get now additional sweet bucks for the media pack to boot.

    Your poor defense of MS here is weak and more holey than Swiss cheese. Actually it's clear now that discussing with you is a waste of time. It's obvious that you would claim any kind of B.S. to make Microsoft's decisions look good.

  • evildictait​or

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    You know fully well that the customers gained NOTHING by the loss of the DVD codecs. 

    Well, if it makes you feel better to think that, be my guest.

    Your poor defense of MS here is weak and more holey than Swiss cheese. Actually it's clear now that discussing with you is a waste of time. It's obvious that you would claim any kind of B.S. to make Microsoft's decision look good.

    You're right. MS are evil bastards. Let's all use Google and Apple's products instead.

  • DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    You're right. MS are evil bastards. Let's all use Google and Apple's products instead.

    I think the OP has a fair point and was just saying Microsoft should put the codecs back; the original justification for dropping the codecs doesn't jive with the price increase. You seem to be the one turning this discussion negative by adding this tone. And that's without added to that the over-the-top Microsoft protectionism you're adding to the discussion.

    It's funny how on all of these threads where it looks like Microsoft might have screwed up you defend them with your last breath. What's the deal? Maybe I'm reading you wrong but it seems like everyone else is an idiot except you and Microsoft -- oh and maybe kettch.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    And that's without added to that the over-the-top Microsoft protectionism you're adding to the discussion.

    I'm not interested that Microsoft makes mistakes. I'm interested why they make mistakes. That is why I am much more interested in asking "what is the thought process that led to this action" than just pointing at their mistakes and saying "Hah! Microsoft is going to die!"

    I never said on this thread that Microsoft should all be giving themselves a pat on the back for removing the codecs, or that putting them back in is impossible. I just want to get this into your head: Every Change Has Consequences. This is true at Microsoft and it's also true everywhere else.

    If Microsoft puts codecs back into Windows, they will make their money back another way. And in business you make money by either charging more or by cutting costs.

    So it is utterly inconsistent to ask for expensive codecs to be added in on the one thread, complain that unused Microsoft features get dropped on another, and also then complain that Microsoft products are too expensive.

    Something has to give. You can't have all of those things.

    If you bothered to think about seeing the world from Microsoft's perspective, you'd realize that you can get them to do stuff that you want them to do by phrasing your requests as a win-win.

    I'm not "being a Microsoft protectionist". I'm trying to see the world as Microsoft sees it so I can understand their decisions better so I can plan for them, or intercept changes that I don't like coming by arguing it "in Microsoft-speak" before it happens.

    I'm sorry if that seems like a protectionist to you. But it's certainly more useful and more constructive than just stamping my feet and shouting "NO! MICROSOFT IS ALWAYS WRONG BECAUSE THEY ARE EVIL AND THEIR PRODUCTS SUCK" like some people on C9 of late.

  • Bass

    Maybe Microsoft wants to maximize the profit they make when they sell Windows? You know, lowering their overhead as much as possible while setting their prices as high as the market will bear, and pocketing the difference. A pretty standard feature of capitalism.

    Why would Microsoft care about making a profit? Because the company is a for-profit enterprise.  Shocking.

  • blowdart

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    Because it means that the customer then gets better products in future at less cost.

    *snip*

    Or the inherent cost of making Windows has gone up, and that removing expensive components has meant that Microsoft didn't have to pass that cost onto consumers.

    Or maybe the reduction in price allowed Microsoft to subsidize Windows to $40 for six months for millions of customers.

    Don't forget inflation too. If something new is the same price as the thing it replaces when it was sold 5 years ago then in real terms it's cheaper.

  • MasterPi

    People still watch DVDs?

    In any case, the best part about time waster's argument is that it makes no mention of people actually having trouble playing DVDs. Hint: my Sony laptop came with Blu-ray/DVD software that included the necessary codecs.

  • cheong

    Btw, in these years which DVD drive you buy doesn't include DVD player software?

    Although some are evaluation version only, when you install them you'll get the codec.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • magicalclick

    Honestly WMP is a bare minimum DVD playback experience, and most people don't even know it is bare minimum experience as they don't even know how to watch DVD using WMP. WMC may be ok, but, we really need to consolidate the experience to Metro to reduce customer confusion. That and tablet, netbook, and ultrabook have no cd rom. And all notebook and DVD Rom retails comes with their own DVD player anyway. While I do miss it, but, I don't think it is that important to bring it back, not with current lackluster experience.

     

    BTW, this app, TKS Media-Player, seems to support DVD playback for free. For now, just get those if you managed to buy a DVD player without software.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • GoddersUK

    , magicalclick wrote

    Honestly WMP is a bare minimum DVD playback experience, and most people don't even know it is bare minimum experience as they don't even know how to watch DVD using WMP. WMC may be ok, but, we really need to consolidate the experience to Metro to reduce customer confusion.

    I'm not going to get into the argument over whether the DVD codecs should be included. It's been done to death and if you don't like it, it's hardly the end of the world. It's not like they're shipping bobcats inside Windows packaging...

    Except to respond to one point in the above, the way I've responded to it before. WMP doesn't suck for playing DVDs, and the less 3rd party suckware on my computer the better.

    Seriously, which is better:

     

    Generic Forum Image

    At the end of the day if I have to pay for the codecs, I have to pay for the codecs (or use VLC), but WMP sucks less than PowerDVD et al. End of.

  • Deactivated User

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