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Windows Phone Apps to run on Windows 8?

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  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,Bas wrote

    Even if you sort of scale up the panoramas and such, all the assets like icons and such would be super low res. It would never work. I could imagine that in future you could write an app that runs both on Windows Phone and Windows 8 (provide high-res assets and they'll get scaled down when compiled for the phone or something), but existing apps? No way.

    The main problem is that most assets intended for a phone would look too huge when viewed on a desktop, even when viewed without scaling. A finger-friendly graphical button for a phone is typically like 80 x 80 pixels. A standard toolbar button in a Windows desktop application is only 22 x 22 pixels. If you run an application on smaller notebook or tablet, a button that's as small as 50 x 50 pixels might be optimal for finger-friendliness.

    IMO, the resolution of the assets, per se, is not the problem. It's the size of the controls relative to the screen size that's the problem. 

  • User profile image
    Bas

    @cbae: that's something you could fix programmatically, though. Detect the screen size (and the type of device) and let the UI framework resize stuff automatically.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ,cbae wrote

    The main problem is that most assets intended for a phone would look too huge when viewed on a desktop, even when viewed without scaling. A finger-friendly graphical button for a phone is typically like 80 x 80 pixels. A standard toolbar button in a Windows desktop application is only 22 x 22 pixels. If you run an application on smaller notebook or tablet, a button that's as small as 50 x 50 pixels might be optimal for finger-friendliness.

    Don't worry, Apple is solving this problem for us by introducing double-dpi displays across their whole Mac range within the next few years.

    Us on Windows will be stuck at 96dpi for the foreseeable future.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    Don't worry, Apple is solving this problem for us by introducing double-dpi displays across their whole Mac range within the next few years.

    Us on Windows will be stuck at 96dpi for the foreseeable future.

    I'm not sure how this matters. An 80 x 80 pixel button takes up 10% of the horizontal dimension on an 800 x 480 pixel display. Let's say Windows is able to support a crazy 8000 x 4800 pixel screen. That 80 x 80 pixel button would then magically scale to an 800 x 800 pixel button. That's still 0% of the horizontal dimension. How does this solve the problem that I mentioned?

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,Bas wrote

    @cbae: that's something you could fix programmatically, though. Detect the screen size (and the type of device) and let the UI framework resize stuff automatically.

    But whatever scaling that needs to happen can't be proportional. You need the window frame to scale to a larger size (i.e. to 1920 x 1080 or whatever), but you want the images to scale DOWN (i.e. to 50 x 50 pixels or whatever). This is not a trivial thing to solve, and it certainly isn't going to be solved by magically increasing the PPI of the display. 

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ,cbae wrote

    *snip*

    I'm not sure how this matters. An 80 x 80 pixel button takes up 10% of the horizontal dimension on an 800 x 480 pixel display. Let's say Windows is able to support a crazy 8000 x 4800 pixel screen. That 80 x 80 pixel button would then magically scale to an 800 x 800 pixel button. That's still 0% of the horizontal dimension. How does this solve the problem that I mentioned?

    I don't understand the problem you're positing exists. WP7 apps run fine in the device emulator, and I imagine you could engineer it so WP7 apps could be ran at arbitrary resolutions since everything's done in Silverlight anyway.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    ,W3bbo wrote

    *snip*

    I don't understand the problem you're positing exists. WP7 apps run fine in the device emulator, and I imagine you could engineer it so WP7 apps could be ran at arbitrary resolutions since everything's done in Silverlight anyway.

    It's not an issue of whether or not the app will run fine. It's an issue of whether or not you're maximizing the use of the available screen real estate provided by the OS. If your app is designed to be finger-friendly on a 4" screen, then all the graphical controls are going to look huge if you scaled it to a 24" flat panel, a 17" notebook, or even a 10" tablet.

    The only reason you don't have problems with all the varying sizes of smartphone displays is because there's really not much difference between a 3.5" display and a 4.3" display.

  • User profile image
    cbae

    It seems like the only solution to this is to start using absolute dimensions and have the application stack set the standard font size according to how close to your face the device's display is going to be held. Buttons that are large enough to be finger-friendly on a smartphone will still be finger-friendly on a tablet and most certainly will be "mouse cursor-friendly" on a desktop, so buttons can be fixed to an absolute size (e.g. 0.5" x 0.5" or whatever) regardless of the display type.

    Text also should be set to an absolute size, but the size would need to change according to the type of display you're using. You hold a smartphone closer to your face, so the standard font size could be small. A tablet is held a little farther from your face, so the standard font size for a tablet needs to be slightly larger. A notebook or desktop display is generally positioned farther still, so the text needs to be larger than on a tablet. Because the standard font size is set to an absolute unit of measure, text will be the same size across all displays of the same type. However, if you have a 10" tablet, a single character that's rendered on the screen will take up a larger percentage of the screen real estate than it would on a tablet with a display that's, say, 12".

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    On the other hand we should be able to run a WP7 App side by side with something else or maybe run 3 WP7 apps side by side with each other? 

    What would be neat (and I suspect part of the deliverable for WIN8) is a UI that allows us to bring in live tiles from different WP7 Apps onto the main surface simultaneously with tiles from other environments (HTML5/WPF/Jupiter or whatever).  I like the sound of that and it goes some way towards a kind of 'super - exhibition' mode that I mentioned elsewhere.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    For some people who claim it is too huge on my 24inchs screen. Yes, that's exactly what I want, that's exactly why I bought a 24inchs screen. I want buttons of 200x200 pixel size on my 24 inchs 1080p display.

    I probably need a 45 inchs HDTV for my current Windows to have the OK OK font size and button size. But, the problem is my neck would hurt if I use HDTV on my desk. I am currently using 125% DPI, mainly because some apps break horribly because they are not WPF apps. 125% is at least manageable when the apps break. Also because I need lower DPI like 125% for coding. Otherwise I would want 200% DPI myself.

    Yeah, is this absurd? Who cares about my old grandpa vision? Sure it is just one grandpa's opinion, but, it is an opinion nevertheless.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    CKurt

    @magicalclick: Or you can change the text size setting in Windows and stuff will look huge on any display. (not just text but all windows/icons) Just search for Text in Windows start menu.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Unless, of course, Microsoft find a way to edge towards HTML5 development for WP7 because then you could unify desktop to phone from the HTML side ...

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    fanbaby

    ,Harlequin wrote

    *snip*

    He might be bringing up possible lawsuit stuff. I'd guarantee that if Silverlight is installed by default on Windows 8 that Adobe Air is as well.

    This is the hottest battle right now. Silverlight vs Adobe Air.  Wink

  • User profile image
    kettch

    ,fanbaby wrote

    *snip*

    This is the hottest battle right now. Silverlight vs Adobe Air.  Wink

    Blech, Air pisses me off. The other day I made the mistake of accessing help from Illustrator instead of going online. It did three updates before it would let me do anything, and the font rendering is as bad as anything Silverlight or WPF have ever had. Plus, it was slow and glitchy. Overall, a wonderful showcase.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    @kettch: I have been using an iPad for about a month and have come to the realisation that that people will believe anything you tell them. The rendering of text is atrocious on the iPad, it is worse than WPF, had it been a Microsoft product that is what people would have been complaining about.

    Safari does not compare to IE9 when you zoom in, and I really am at a loss why it Apple products are so so overrated. I did try the New York Times app a while ago, and the Air version was better than the WPF version but WPF 3 was still rudimentary.

     

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ,Dr Herbie wrote

    Unless, of course, Microsoft find a way to edge towards HTML5 development for WP7 because then you could unify desktop to phone from the HTML side ...

    So HP was right about webOS then?

     

  • User profile image
    philjay

    Are you sure WP7 controls are implementend twice once native for native apps and one version managed for managed apps? I thought (don't you think?) all UI is completely managed, while there are some native controls and logic all wrapped for the managed presentation and ui layer?

  • User profile image
    Ian2

    @W3bbo:Yep, Back to the Future - maybe it's time to buy those sneakers...

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