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Windows Store Apps, "Metro Style" and "Unification".... thoughts requested.

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    Deactivated User

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    magicalclick

    I am a user of ModernMix. Personally I see a lot of potential with metro. I liked the app store, unified presentation model, and safer environment, that is a very needed feature. But the metro experience is so limited to touch screen, I just can't sit there and be happy about it. As Sinofsky has stated, people love taskbar, they pin, they launch app, they switch app using taskbar, people rarely use StartMenu. And instead of embracing taskbar, he did the opposite. He decided to remove all metro app supports on our beloved taskbar. This raised tremendous barrier for desktop user to adopt any metro app. I liked metro at its core. But, it is lacking in key usability features that, I have a dislike it for now. Anyway, because of ModernMix, metro app is actually useful now, just that, I have to buy this 3rd party hack to fix something that MS refused to address.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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    ZippyV

    You didn't mention what kind of device you use when using Windows 8. If you have a laptop or desktop pc than you will be using the desktop more than the metro apps.

    1. What do you mean with a managed environment? The metro environment has native apps too.
    2. The desktop is certainly more productive than the metro environment if you are using a laptop or desktop pc. Nobody said that the desktop is dead or will be abandoned. Not all desktop applications can be converted to touchscreen friendly metro apps.
    3. Using desktop applications like Office 2013 on Windows RT with a touch screen is not a great experience. It works more or less but a full screen metro app would work better. I hope in the next version of Windows we will see WinRT desktop apps. I think Microsoft focused on tablet and touchscreen features first because that market is growing explosively but that doesn't mean the desktop is dead.
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    Craig_​Matthews

    , ZippyV wrote

    1. The desktop is certainly more productive than the metro environment if you are using a laptop or desktop pc. Nobody said that the desktop is dead or will be abandoned. Not all desktop applications can be converted to touchscreen friendly metro apps.

    Except everyone continues to use phrases like "when every app is moved over to metro" and "when the desktop goes away" and continue to talk about the day when we'll all be snapping 3 apps to our screens to be 'productive' and there will be no desktop.

    Nearly every post I see here talks about the desktop eventually being abandoned. The only disagreements I see is over "when" with some people at one end saying MS already abandoned it and people at the other end saying things like "at least a version or two."

     

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    MasterPi

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    Nearly every post I see here talks about the desktop eventually being abandoned. The only disagreements I see is over "when" with some people at one end saying MS already abandoned it and people at the other end saying things like "at least a version or two." 

    Depending on how you look at it, the arguments are essentially the same. The moment when all desktop apps are "ported" to metro would be when you'd essentially end up treating metro as a "desktop." There would still be both desktop-like apps and metro/consumer-ish apps, so in that sense, it died but it didn't.

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    bondsbw

    I'm ok with the desktop going away, but metro is too locked down right now.  I write LOB apps that specifically need to load external assemblies at runtime, need to read/write to the serial port, need to communicate with other applications on localhost without user initiation, and need to be sideloaded.  Until these and other capabilities are unlocked, metro cannot act for me as a desktop replacement.

    I understand why Microsoft has locked these capabilities down, but at the end of the day a user must have some way to say, "I know I can get myself into trouble, but allow me to do these things."

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    cbae

    @bondsbw: I really wish Microsoft would provide some details about the changes to WinRT forthcoming. We've seen some UI changes and new features of the OS, but the thing holding back adoption of Metro apps isn't the OS itself. It's the damn WinRT framework.

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    bondsbw

    , ObjectAntics wrote

    while others are MULTITASKING MASTERS, with 500 Windows stealing FOCUS at any moment

    I understand this thought process and the reason these folks like the desktop.  But for me it's from the opposite perspective.  I don't want overlapping windows, I want full screen areas that will help me focus on the current job, but at the same time I want dockable windows that can help with my main multitasking needs.

    It's easy to go from metro to desktop; ModernMix does this.  But the opposite isn't true.  Some dialog windows are designed to be a fixed small size.  If I were able to dock any desktop window, practically none of them would resize correctly to work well in that mode.

    So I don't have a lot of sorrow for those who dislike the metro UI, as again their problem has been solved with ModernMix.  My situation isn't solved and won't be if apps I use are still being developed for the desktop.

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    evildictait​or

    , bondsbw wrote

    I'm ok with the desktop going away, but metro is too locked down right now.  I write LOB apps that specifically need to load external assemblies at runtime, need to read/write to the serial port, need to communicate with other applications on localhost without user initiation, and need to be sideloaded.  Until these and other capabilities are unlocked, metro cannot act for me as a desktop replacement.

    1. Instead of loading external assemblies at runtime, just load all of them at startup time and then lazily initialize them when you need them. You can't load code in WinRT apps that isn't part of the AppX by design.

    2. Writing to the serial port is something that Win8.1 can do. (http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-026 at 8:40).

    3. You can communicate to other programs on localhost already in WinRT. You need the Local Network capability to do so.

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    bondsbw

    , evildictait​or wrote

    1. Instead of loading external assemblies at runtime, just load all of them at startup time and then lazily initialize them when you need them. You can't load code in WinRT apps that isn't part of the AppX by design.

    This defeats the whole purpose of extensible design.

    2. Writing to the serial port is something that Win8.1 can do. (http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-026 at 8:40).

    That segment seemed to be specific to using the serial port profile over bluetooth, and I didn't see any other mention when I skimmed the video.  But I'll take a look into it, thanks.

    3. You can communicate to other programs on localhost already in WinRT. You need the Local Network capability to do so.

    I've created a similar POC before, but would this pass Windows Store certification?  My solution either needs to go to the Windows Store or we need a way to sideload apps painlessly.  (By painlessly, I mean installing without being domain joined, without being managed by Intune, and without purchasing sideloading licenses... in other words, like a desktop app.)

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    bondsbw

    , ObjectAntics wrote

    And most importantly I want the OS/UX to be the same on my desk as my users will have so that oA's software will run "by-design" on our user's machines. 

    So you are unwilling to conform your desktop to that of your users (standard Windows 8 with fullscreen apps), and instead you want your users to all conform their desktops to yours (a la ModernMix or a theoretical equivalent built-in behavior)?

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