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SaaSy Windows desktop

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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    Mary Jo Foley reports that Microsoft is preparing to offer the Windows Desktop as a service next year. I think that's a great idea especially for iOS and Android device users that only need the desktop occationally. It would be also useful for Windows RT devices that are too underpowered to run some desktop apps.

    On the other hand it may be the means to remove the desktop entirely from Windows 9. I for one would not want to run Visual Studio out of a remote desktop session over the internet. I'd hope they keep the desktop in Windows for years to come but I could understand why some in Microsoft may want to push the Windows 8 Store App environment on people just like they did with start screen, removal of the start button, etc. if they go with the forced approach I hope they understand they won't have much success with that without also offering a superior experience in Windows 8 Store App environment than your competitors. That would even be more so true since the desktop is the only big advantage they have over the likes of iOS and Android.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Where does it say that you are being forced to move? This article is talking about corporate VDI as a service, not selling grandma 30 hours of desktop a month so that she can use her Hoyle Solitaire MegaPak that she's had for the past 15 years.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    The desktop is definately going away on Windows RT. I believe the only reasons why it's still there is because you still need the control panel or have to view documents in Office because there is no metro version of it yet but I suspect it won't take long before the switch to metro will be complete.

    That being said. I believe the desktop will stay available on normal/desktop versions of Windows and a desktop version of Office will also stay here. Microsoft is not going to ditch it, anyone who thinks otherwise is not right in their mind.

    The tablet market is growing rapidly and Microsoft is already a couple of years behind and they need to catch up fast. They are investing a lot of time and money in it and we are seeing the results of that. It looks like they have forgotten about the desktop but I don't think they are going to ditch it.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Where does it say that you are being forced to move? This article is talking about corporate VDI as a service, not selling grandma 30 hours of desktop a month so that she can use her Hoyle Solitaire MegaPak that she's had for the past 15 years.

    A little touchy around the word "forced" aren't you? Yeah sure Grandma can run Windows XP for ever and ever and ever. Does that make you happy?

    We all know that Microsoft is trying to get people to move away from the legacy desktop to the new "Windows". I'm just speculating that in addition to using the Windows desktop SaaS for useful corporate scenarios that they may also use it to displace the desktop from Windows (and probably starting with WindowsRT). On the upside if Microsoft allows for it you could also use the desktop service from iOS, Android, and other OS's that have RDP clients.

     

    , ZippyV wrote

    *snip*

    That being said. I believe the desktop will stay available on normal/desktop versions of Windows and a desktop version of Office will also stay here. Microsoft is not going to ditch it, anyone who thinks otherwise is not right in their mind.

    The tablet market is growing rapidly and Microsoft is already a couple of years behind and they need to catch up fast. They are investing a lot of time and money in it and we are seeing the results of that. It looks like they have forgotten about the desktop but I don't think they are going to ditch it.

    IMO Microsoft thinks it can "catch up" by making the move to the Windows 8 App Store environment as unavoidable as possible. With Windows Blue Microsoft appears to continue the trend of shifting features from the desktop to the Windows 8 App Store environment. They have left desktop developers high and dry showing no signs of investing in desktop APIs. What's a desktop developer supposed to do? Wait 5 years for Microsoft to announce their renewed support for the desktop? I think not. More likely they'll move on to web and other successful mobile platforms.

    Like it or not I believe the desktop has been relegated to "legacy" status and this new desktop SaaS makes it pretty easy for Microsoft to offer a legacy Windows-free OS with a means to excuse the desktop's exclusion and make money reselling it back to those who need it as a service.

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: There is no evidence that the desktop is going away. It will continue to evolve, but the concept will remain. I never said anything about XP.

    speculating

    On this we agree.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    We all know that Microsoft is trying to get people to move away from the legacy desktop to the new "Windows". 

    The words I object to there are "move away from". Sure, you can't develop for desktop on the Surface - but you never could. Microsoft has never had an offering on the tablet where you could write normal Win32 apps. On your laptops and tower PCs, sure, Microsoft would like you to use their new WinRT stuff. They'd also like you to host it all in Windows Azure,  and then write a powerpoint presentation all about it and send it to your friends via Skype and so.cl (lol).

    Point is that Microsoft is obviously pushing its new features - but that's not to say you can't use the old ones. It's like electric cars. They have a market - and there's some stuff they obviously do better than petrol ones (like noise and local air pollution), and if you're the type of person that really wants an app in the Windows Store or to see what programming looks like when everything is async/awaited, dive in and have fun in WinRT-land.

    For everyone else (that's right - all 99.9999% of you right now, and maybe, one day, only 90% of you), keep using the desktop. That's where heavy lifting has always been, and will continue to be for the forseeable future. Your games, office, LOB apps, processing apps, 3D modelling apps - let's face it - everything useful is likely to still be on the desktop - possibly with "readonly" or "management summary" type Metro apps coupled with it.

    Metro is cool. It's swishy, it's got lots of nice features, it's a really nice platform. But it's not a replacement for the Desktop. It's an addition to it.

  • User profile image
    Dirtbagg

    All software companies have been trying to do that for years.

    Citrix, Microsoft, VMware, Novell, probably even Apple

  • User profile image
    dahat

    , evildictait​or wrote

    Metro is cool. It's swishy, it's got lots of nice features, it's a really nice platform. But it's not a replacement for the Desktop. It's an addition to it.

    Doesn't that depend on the user? When I look at many of the non-power users around me... most can or do happily live in the 'modern' world as they simply care about being able to read/send email and browse the web... plus maybe use a specific app or two extra.

    In previous years these same people would consider Internet Explorer or Firefox their 'desktop'... as it was through it that they got to everything.

    Like you I'm shocked (and a bit saddened) anytime I hear people say that the desktop is dead or that it's being moved away from fully (for some apps sure, but then we saw a similar movement more than a decade ago with the push towards the web).

    Will the desktop ever go away fully? I highly doubt... I suspect not though for one simple reason:

    Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers.

    While I could imagine many a situation where a desktop-less version of Office could get a person by... how many Web/Windows Store App/Phone Phone App/Desktop/System developers do you think could get by with a modern version of Visual Studio?

    Are they/we a niche? In many respects yes... but so are desktop PCs (compared to laptop and tablet sales)... and despite the majority of users these days happy with their portable devices, there is enough demand for a desktop form factor for more power users that I'd expect to see the desktop live on for much the same reason.

  • User profile image
    TexasToast

    This argument is getting old.   Just because there is some emphasis on tablets does not mean desktop is dead.  Tablets are not replacing your smartphone either. (unless you have big pockets).  They all have a place.  I don't do real work on a phone or tablet but I use them for quick information or simple reading and entertainment.   Tablet only beats the phone because the screen is bigger.  The desktop is still great for business, engineering, software development and many others.  Microsoft owns the market for desktops so they are working hard now to expand in what they are behind in. 

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: There is no evidence that the desktop is going away. It will continue to devolve, but the concept will remain. I never said anything about XP.

    *snip*

    There, I fixed that for ya.

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    The words I object to there are "move away from". Sure, you can't develop for desktop on the Surface - but you never could. Microsoft has never had an offering on the tablet where you could write normal Win32 apps. On your laptops and tower PCs, sure, Microsoft would like you to use their new WinRT stuff. They'd also like you to host it all in Windows Azure,  and then write a powerpoint presentation all about it and send it to your friends via Skype and so.cl (lol).

    You can develop desktop apps for Surface Pro and any of the Windows 8 tablets and convertibles. The rest I can agree with and is damn funny.

    Point is that Microsoft is obviously pushing its new features - but that's not to say you can't use the old ones. It's like electric cars. They have a market - and there's some stuff they obviously do better than petrol ones (like noise and local air pollution), and if you're the type of person that really wants an app in the Windows Store or to see what programming looks like when everything is async/awaited, dive in and have fun in WinRT-land.

    Not quite right; while there is some effort to push electric cars ( ~ W8 Store Apps) the vast majority of dollars and effort is going into petrol cars (~ Windows desktop). Of course with Windows we see exactly the opposite with most of Microsoft's efforts going into W8 Store Apps/environment and next to nothing going into the desktop other than moving its features over to the prior. IMO this isn't a temporary big push for Microsoft. It's their future and they leave everything else is left to rot. Sure you can use it but don't expect Microsoft to go out of their way to make it better or easier.

    For everyone else (that's right - all 99.9999% of you right now, and maybe, one day, only 90% of you), keep using the desktop. That's where heavy lifting has always been, and will continue to be for the forseeable future. Your games, office, LOB apps, processing apps, 3D modelling apps - let's face it - everything useful is likely to still be on the desktop - possibly with "readonly" or "management summary" type Metro apps coupled with it.

    Metro is cool. It's swishy, it's got lots of nice features, it's a really nice platform. But it's not a replacement for the Desktop. It's an addition to it.

    And that's what's so frustrating about this Apple-envy approach Microsoft is taking; they ignore the masses in hopes to become the popular kid on the block in the consumer space.

    Just like WinRT isn't replacement for WPF/SL it's and addition to it. So where's the roadmap for WPF/SL hiding again? Perplexed

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    Microsoft's goal seems to be to get rid of the desktop entirely (to their own detriment). If that happens you either need to use a third-party emulator on metro-windows (if that would even work, given the severe limitations of WinRT) or desktop applications would be hosted in Microsoft's own emulator-like environment inside metro. I guess such environment would be severely crippled - like no drag-drop between other desktop applications, only one main window visible etc... just like the other metro victims.

    Now given this recent Azure news it looks like you are going to be depended on a always-on internet connection and you need to pay up monthly fees. I thought they would be generous enough to include some sort of Win32 emulator into future Windows versions, but guess no. They want to subscribe you instead. "NuMicrosoft" is at it again.

    Given this future, it makes more sense making a switch to Mac and use VMware with W7 or Parallels Desktop there for Windows applications. It would be more comfortable than metrofied Windows and 24/7 pay-desktop for sure. Mac also has native versions of quite many Windows applications (like the Adobe suite). Believe it or not, but I have never bought a single Apple product in my life, and thanks to Microsoft's craze-course I am contemplating to do this for the first time ever. Good job.

    Of course, right now, W8 with Start8 is the better choice for existing Windows users. But if Microsoft marches on with metro, Mac with Windows virtualization will be the better choice in the future.

    By the way, According to netmarketshare.com Windows 8 gained 0.50% in April and is now at 3.82%. Absolutely pathetic compared to Vista's run in its day, and lightyears below Windows 7's run. Looks like the users aren't all hots about forced tiles.

    Windows 8 Touch" (0.02%) and "Windows 8 RT Touch" (0.00%) aren't even on the radar. By the way, the recent "good news" about Windows 8 tablets are actually in raw numbers just sales of 3 Million devices worldwide, the "dead" PC sells at 90 Million units per quarter currently. Win!

    And Vista is still ahead in overall marketshare. So the "strategy" is paying off on all fronts........

  • User profile image
    dahat

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Not quite right; while there is some effort to push electric cars ( ~ W8 Store Apps) the vast majority of dollars and effort is going into petrol cars (~ Windows desktop). Of course with Windows we see exactly the opposite with most of Microsoft's efforts going into W8 Store Apps/environment and next to nothing going into the desktop other than moving its features over to the prior.

    So... Toyota, GM, Tesla, etc should all give up on building electric cars... because the market has spoken and petrol cars have obviously won out, will never be fully replaced and they shouldn't waste their time or money building things that only a very small niche of users want today?

  • User profile image
    Retro​Recursion

    , ZippyV wrote

    The tablet market is growing rapidly 

    I'm confused as to why so many people here think that tablets and touch are the future. They often times refer to it as if tablets and touch are an unstoppable force, taking it's market share from desktop and laptop PCs. If that's the future, why has it taken Microsoft 12 years to get to 1.8% market share? Sounds like a vision of the future that's forced upon people. There are other visions of the future that make much more sense.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    Microsoft's goal seems to be to get rid of the desktop entirely

    Citation please.

    Or at least consider/explain what I said above... without a desktop... how are developers of just about any kind going to get their work done? Do you really see Visual Studio being rebuilt to run as a modern app?

    I guess such environment would be severely crippled - like no drag-drop between other desktop applications, only one main window visible etc... just like the other metro victims.

    Any other non-existent future tech you want to predict? Maybe nuclear powered toasters which only toast one side of the bread? Or maybe TVs which run on kitten images... but that explode any time a puppy image is displayed?

    Making stuff up is so much fun!

    Now given this recent Azure news it looks like you are going to be depended on a always-on internet connection and you need to pay up monthly fees.

    This is why I try not to pay much attention to rumors and purported leaks... no matter how credible sounding the news is (if true) or what the topics are about (including those things I'm interested in) as there can/are often details that are not initially reported which may put things in a completely different light.

    Or... it could be you are doing just what your name implies... trolling on a forum.

    Given this future

    Which future? The one you are assuming will exist based on fairies and make-believe?

    Of course, right now, W8 with Start8 is the better choice for existing Windows users. But if Microsoft marches on with metro, Mac with Windows virtualization will be the better choice in the future.

    Wait a second... did you just claim that Windows 8 + Start8 is a better choice for existing Windows users than simply sticking with what they already have? I guess Windows 8 must not be all bad then compared to Windows 7... or even better in a few important ways. Just as a broken clock can be right twice a day... so too can a troll actually be correct from time to time it seems.

    By the way, According to netmarketshare.com Windows 8 gained 0.50% in April and is now at 3.82%.

    Latest Steam hardware survey puts Windows 8 at 11.65%.

    Absolutely pathetic compared to Vista's run in its day,

    Citation? Your site requires signing up for anything earlier than 2008 data... and looking at data 12-24 months after the Vista release doesn't seem fair when comparing to a six month old OS.

    You also assume that the PC market is today as it was years ago... where untold billions of people would run out the day a new version of Windows was released... just to be running the latest and greatest... and that absolutely nobody out there simply waits for an old PC to die before purchasing a new one with whatever OS it might come with.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , dahat wrote

    *snip*

    Citation please.

    Or at least consider/explain what I said above... without a desktop... how are developers of just about any kind going to get their work done? Do you really see Visual Studio being rebuilt to run as a modern app?

    No, but given Microsoft's recent screw-you course, I can see Visual Studio and the desktop as a whole being shoved into a VDI kind of solution or a little window inside metro at best.

    Would it spark protests? Sure. But look how much protests the bleaching-out of Office 2013 caused, or the new look of Visual Studio, or the removal of the start menu. Microsoft gave a big middle finger about it.

    *snip*

    Any other non-existent future tech you want to predict? Maybe nuclear powered toasters which only toast one side of the bread? Or maybe TVs which run on kitten images... but that explode any time a puppy image is displayed?

    Making stuff up is so much fun!

    *snip*

    This is why I try not to pay much attention to rumors and purported leaks... no matter how credible sounding the news is (if true) or what the topics are about (including those things I'm interested in) as there can/are often details that are not initially reported which may put things in a completely different light.

    Or... it could be you are doing just what your name implies... trolling on a forum.

    *snip*

    Which future? The one you are assuming will exist based on fairies and make-believe?

    So, where is Microsoft's assurance for the desktop?! There is NONE. If Microsoft is so serious about it, maybe they should show it.

    It's Microsoft own politics that let this rumors grow. And I am not the only one who has the fear that MS flushes its own crown jewels down, just look around. Microsoft's handling of its existing users in Windows 8 so far, and its handling of "legacy" like Silverlight/WPF/XNA doesn't inspire confidence.

    Come on guys, make a statement that all is well in desktop-land and a lot of fear would vanish. You're mad at the signals your own company is sending out constantly.

    , dahat wrote

    Wait a second... did you just claim that Windows 8 + Start8 is a better choice for existing Windows users than simply sticking with what they already have?

    No, right now Windows 8 + enhancements is better for the existing desktop users than going Mac + Windows emulator. This changes if Microsoft "double-downs" with metro. But it's not better than Windows 7.

    , dahat wrote

    *snip*

    Latest Steam hardware survey puts Windows 8 at 11.65%.

    Steam?! Who is trolling here who? The counter sites are far more representative than a game service.

    , dahat wrote

    *snip*

    Citation? Your site requires signing up for anything earlier than 2008 data... and looking at data 12-24 months after the Vista release doesn't seem fair when comparing to a six month old OS.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9236436/Windows_8_s_usage_uptake_falls_further_behind_Vista_s

    February 1, 2013 01:55 PM ET

     

    Windows 8 fell further behind the pace of Windows Vista's uptake last month, a metric company said today, even as usage share of the new operating system continued to slowly climb.

    Statistics from Net Applications showed that Windows 8's January share was 2.5% of all Windows PCs, up from December's 1.9%. When what the analytics firm tagged as "touch" for Windows 8 and Windows RT were added, the January total rose slightly to 2.6%.

    Because Net Applications measures operating system usage share by tallying unique visitors to websites, the "touch" numbers reflected browsers -- overwhelmingly Internet Explorer 10 (IE10) -- run from the user interface once named "Metro" on Windows 8 and Windows RT.

    Even so, Windows 8 share lagged behind the 3.3% share that Vista scored after its third full month of availability. In fact, last month's seven-tenths of a point gap between the two was more than double the difference of three-tenths of a point in December, indicating that Windows 8 is not only not matching Vista's pace, but failing further behind.

     

    So, Vista was at 3.3% after three months, Windows 8 is just at 3.8% after double the period. Not to mention that Vista was released for the general public well after the Christmas season, while W8 got the black Friday and Christmas boost, and despite this is still well behind.

    http://winsupersite.com/news/windows-vista-usage-share-surges-355-percent-leaves-mac-os-x-dust

    Vista, by way of contrast, showed far more explosive growth. In June, 2007 [six months after release] it had 4.54% market share. In June, 2008, it had reached 16.14%

    Windows 8 is doing so poorly despite being a tablet OS as well. It runs on two classes of devices and still lags severely behind the Windows version with the most dubious reputation (until W8 that is).

  • User profile image
    dahat

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote

    So, where is Microsoft's assurance for the desktop?! There is NONE. If Microsoft is so serious about it, maybe they should show it.

    Or we could just say:

    So where is Microsoft's assurance for shipping a calculator in Windows?! There is NONE. If Microsoft is so serious about it, maybe they should show it.

    While I have no influence or insights into the exact future of the Windows desktop, calculator or other such areas (these days I'm working in an unannounced and very niche area in Server that will make an awesome Channel 9 video when we go public)... I learned long ago that an absence of a definitive specific statement does not necessarily indicate the opposite.

    You know... Microsoft also hasn't said what the next version of many of it's products will be named... know what that means? Absolutely nothing!

    A little bit of non-conspiratorial/paranoid thinking goes a long way.

    No, right now Windows 8 + enhancements is better for the existing desktop users than going Mac + Windows emulator. But it's not better than Windows 7.

    And yet that's not what you said to start with.

    Steam?! Who is trolling here who? The counter sites are far more representative than a game service.

    No... it's called thinking broadly without getting caught up in pointless minutia.

    Most computer users don't upgrade just because a new version of anything is out... most upgrade when what they have is dead, too slow, or so uncool that they must upgrade... but also do it in certain semi-predictable waves (more on that in a few).

    The Steam survey does measure a smaller group of users... but also a group that is more likely to upgrade (HW or SW) more frequently than an average user.

    Even so, Windows 8 share lagged behind the 3.3% share that Vista scored after its third full month of availability. In fact, last month's seven-tenths of a point gap between the two was more than double the difference of three-tenths of a point in December, indicating that Windows 8 is not only not matching Vista's pace, but failing further behind.

    So, Vista was at 3.3% after three months, Windows 8 is just at 3.8% after double the period. Not to mention that Vista was released for the general public well after the Christmas season, while W8 got the black Friday and Christmas boost, and despite this is still well behind.

    I see what you did there... you ignored some #'s... you mentioned where Vista was 3 months out, but ignored your second article's comments about Vista 6 months out which are far less dire for 8:

    Vista, by way of contrast, showed far more explosive growth. In June, 2007, it had 4.54% market share

    So ~6 months after release... Vista was at 4.54%... and just yesterday it was reported that Windows 8 (~6 months since release) 3.82%... a little behind % wise sure, but ignoring the psychology of upgrade cycles... you still seem to be missing two important things:

    1. The economy in many a country is still not in tip top shape (In 3/2013 the unemployment rate in the US was 7.6%... while in 6/07 it was just 4.6%... you seem to be discounting the possibility that peoples abilities to get & maintain stable and gainful employment could affect purchasing.

    2. The PC market has expanded significantly since 2007, meaning it takes many more sales in order to hit the same % numbers.

    We'll also ignore the fact that Windows 8 is fighting the same battle that Windows 7 did... competing against previous versions which still offer a compelling experience that runs on hardware which does age as badly as HW of just a few years earlier.

    Not to mention Windows 8 is doing so poorly despite being a tablet OS as well.

    So the fact it is a new product in a fairly established market with existing and entrenched players has no baring on what kind of headwinds it might be facing? Riiiight. I wonder what your excuse about Mac OS (desktop & laptop) or Linux (desktop & laptop) market share is.

    Lets think some more... shall we? I know it's hard...

    When it comes to cars... how many people do you think say "Oh the new model year is out! Time to go trade in what I've got and get the latest and greatest?

    Not many.

    Some (like me) drive their old vehicle into the ground and keep on going before getting something new.

    Most though tend to be content with what they have until their general satisfaction has gone down just enough that the wiz-bang-wow new models suddenly justify the cost & hassle of getting something newer. Sometimes they go out immediately and get something... more often (provided their isn't an immediate motivating factor like an existing dead vehicle)... they'll wait for the next thing to come out.

    PCs are similar. Most businesses upgrade on a 3-4 year cycle while most users tend to be in a 3-5 year cycle (in my personal experience).

    XP was approaching 5 years old by the time Vista came out and with the age of the 'old' stuff and the newness of the new... upgrading (either full PC or just OS) is a very attractive proposition.

    Vista was 3 years old when Windows 7 came out... the same age 7 was when 8 came out.

    In both cases... HW purchased at the start of each OS cycle was still at the lower end of the normal upgrade cycle, which means that an immediate upgrade is less likely unless there is something major to justify the hassle and cost of an upgrade (just like I said above about cars, funny that).

    Overtime we'll see more and more XP, Vista and 7 machines be replaced with ones running 8... just as fewer and fewer later model cars on the road as they are replaced by more recent ones.

    If I didn't know any better... I'd say that you've got a vested interest in Windows 8 failing... but then I cannot imagine why you'd waste your time with such a proposition that is so unrelated to you... which strikes me as a rather sad way to live ones life.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , dahat wrote

    So ~6 months after release... Vista was at 4.54%... and just yesterday it was reported that Windows 8 (~6 months since release) 3.82%... a little behind % wise sure, but ignoring the psychology of upgrade cycles... you still seem to be missing two important things:

    1. The economy in many a country is still not in tip top shape (In 3/2013 the unemployment rate in the US was 7.6%... while in 6/07 it was just 4.6%... you seem to be discounting the possibility that peoples abilities to get & maintain stable and gainful employment could affect purchasing.

    Yet people seem to have not much problems buying other devices than Windows 8 ones. You're also forgetting here that Vista is the most panned version until W8 and had severe performance problems on a wide range of hardware. (Vista ready). It also had no Christmas boost. It was also tied to a single device-class.

    Still did better.

    There are more PCs, alright, but all these factors should have negated it if W8 would be the great thing you guys are claiming. Windows 8 has also a far bigger advertising effort behind it. More ads are running than for Vista and 7 combined.

     

    , dahat wrote

    We'll also ignore the fact that Windows 8 is fighting the same battle that Windows 7 did... competing against previous versions which still offer a compelling experience that runs on hardware which does age as badly as HW of just a few years earlier.

    Yet Windows 7 did far better than Windows 8. And how awesome was the economy in 2009?

     

    , dahat wrote

    So the fact it is a new product in a fairly established market with existing and entrenched players has no baring on what kind of headwinds it might be facing? Riiiight. I wonder what your excuse about Mac OS (desktop & laptop) or Linux (desktop & laptop) market share is.

    Desktop Linux is the eternal 1%er, it's no competition. And Mac is a overpriced premium brand. Never have I read so many comparisons to Linux and Mac like with Windows 8 now. The people at Neowin are constantly fawning over that Windows does better than frigging Linux. That's just pathetic. You guys seem to assume that the people who don't like Windows 8 are all freetards or macfans.

    existing and entrenched players 

    Oh, no, Microsoft is NOT a newcomer. What about all the Windows CE based stuff reaching as far as 17 years ago? Microsoft wants to make it sound as if they are new to all this phone thing, and that they are still "trying". Wrong. They had smartphone-like devices (and tablets) before most people even knew what a search engine was.

    They handled that marketshare to Google and Microsoft on a silver tablet. The "failed" Windows Mobile had more marketshare than WP probably ever will.

    , dahat wrote

    PCs are similar. Most businesses upgrade on a 3-4 year cycle while most users tend to be in a 3-5 year cycle (in my personal experience).

    XP was approaching 5 years old by the time Vista came out and with the age of the 'old' stuff and the newness of the new... upgrading (either full PC or just OS) is a very attractive proposition.

    Vista was 3 years old when Windows 7 came out... the same age 7 was when 8 came out.

    In both cases... HW purchased at the start of each OS cycle was still at the lower end of the normal upgrade cycle, which means that an immediate upgrade is less likely unless there is something major to justify the hassle and cost of an upgrade (just like I said above about cars, funny that).

    Nice. Problem is, Windows 7 had a far better headstart and run than Vista actually.

    So neither the 3-years nor the 5-years apply to Windows 8. It's below the run of Vista and FAR below the run of Windows 7. W7 had over 6% after three months.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , dahat wrote

    So where is Microsoft's assurance for shipping a calculator in Windows?! There is NONE. If Microsoft is so serious about it, maybe they should show it.
     
    Apples and oranges much? How much investment is tied to calc.exe? Yes, if they are serious about the desktop, they should frigging show it!
     
    Would it kill Ballmer if Microsoft would offer a definitive statement that the billions of dollars investment into desktop software and infrastructure around the world is not for nil? That would surely be a change amidst all the "legacy desktop" talk.

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