Coffeehouse Thread

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SaaSy Windows desktop

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  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , dahat wrote

    @DeathBy​VisualStudio: Are you the sort who walks up to a McDonalds at 3am on Christmas Day... sees that the lights are off and no one there, pulls on the door then starts screaming "Oh my god! McDonalds is failing! McDonalds is obviously getting out of the food business as they are not serving me exactly what, how and when I want! The fact that this store is closed proves it!"... never mind the fact it's 3am... and on a holiday they will likely be closed during.

    Sorry I don't do fast food. You must be speaking from your own experience.

    *snip*

    I seem to be getting hoarse repeating myself as you clearly aren't listening. I have seen no actions that are a definite sign that the desktop is dead... NONE.

    You also forget the fact that this company (like most) tend not to announce every manner of detail about the future months or years in advance... or did I miss the Microsoft branded truck with the megaphone driving around yelling "Ding dong the desktop is dead!"? I've seen many strange and/or interesting sights in Redmond (the Warthog, SteveB, third party companies flying aircraft trailing banners over campus to try to convince us to buy this or that, life size statues of gaming characters (and much more))... but still not that.

    That's quite the exaggeration of my point. I guess that's a natural defense mechanism for some people.

    *snip*

    Not being on the WPF or SL team...  I wouldn't be able to comment.

    Head. Meet. Sand.

    *snip*

    Is the Win32 API dead? It occurs to me that we've not heard much news out of that area. OMG! Win32 programming is dead!!! Quick! Tell the Office and Visual Studio teams to stop whatever they are doing as it is obviously pointless!

    Again I never said that. Do you have some sort of mind reading capability or do you just like to put words in peoples' mouths that suit your point?

    *snip*

    One who rejects rational thinking might come to that conclusion... yes. Again I remind you of developers. It would be a strange world of Microsoft were to remove the desktop from Windows and suddenly prevent developers from developing for and on their platform.

    Well champ I don't see a whole lot of rational thinking coming out of your comments either. Just a lot of hyperbole.

    Microsoft doesn't seem to mind leaving stuff out of new versions of Visual Studio such that we devs have to have three versions installed to support our development projects. I don't see it out of the relm of possiblities that Microsoft would simply say "You can keep using Windows X for development. We're not forcing you to upgrade".

    *snip*

    Correct... but no news is also by definition 'no news'... and making crap up is even less news.

    Spoken like someone who knows a lot about making crap up.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    And the SQL server team handing out free bacon. Redmond is strange.

    I don't know if this comment is an example of "no news is good news" but...

    With the release of SQL 2012 and the fact that it's APIs aren't being replaced seems to suggest that Microsoft is continuing forward with this technology. On the other hand the lack of any development news regarding WPF/SL or any replacement technologies for desktop apps coupled with the moment of desktop features (namely the control panel and related) into the Windows 8 Store App environment I believe is at least a reason for concern.

    It's funny how when I started this thread I mentioned both the good and the bad of the desktop SaaS idea but yet everyone perservated on my negative comments. Why aren't we talking about how useful it would be to be able to run Windows apps on an iOS or Android device? How nice it would be to leverage W8's settings synchronization with a virtual desktop so when you don't have a PC within reach you can always limp along with a virtual desktop delivered via SaaS? C'mon guys if you want to have an objective discussion then you gotta try a little harder about actually staying objective.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: It's a catch 22. If Microsoft releases information on what they are going to do, the pundits decry the new changes and pine for the old days. This happened when WPF was first announced. Native developers and WinForms developers were up in arms complaining that these new features weren't getting backported and people were bemoaning the death of all things WPF.

    If Microsoft doesn't announce anything, people wail and gnash their teeth because everything that doesn't have a press release within the last week is going to be killed off and locusts will verily descend from the heavens on trails of arcane fire to feast on our desiccated entrails.

    I've seen the exact same thing happen every single product cycle since I've been in this industry. Various product release schedules leapfrog each other, and with every cycle people dust off their "REPENT NOW" signs and take to the streets only to go back under their bridges when the next wave of releases hits.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @kettch: It's not the same and adding so much hyperoble doesn't change the fact that there is no WinRT story for the desktop nor a continuation of the WPF/SL story. There is just a vacuum that is slowly being filled with other changes to Windows itself that take away from the desktop brick by brick. Sure some complain about change but for me I am just asking for Microsoft to fill a void they created rather than simply complain about the change that surround the void.

    BTW, I think its pretty sad that you have to resort to such hyperoble and sterotyping in order to feel secure in your point of view. It really detracts from your points much like someone who refers to Microsoft as M$.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @DeathByVisualStudio: It's more like satire to make a point, but potayto, potahto.

    The tech industry's reaction to news/no news always seems to be rather extreme. If news is delivered too early, there's panic and then disappointment when the early message (which was taken as fact) changes over time. Then if there's not enough news, people panic. It's no wonder Microsoft gets so skittish about releasing. This has already happened once in the past year. A presenter made comment about adding support for HTML apps, and people panicked and declared the end of all other development platforms. That panic was entirely unfounded. The current round of panic is nothing different.

    That's not hyperbole, it's stuff that did happen. Right on this very forum, in fact.

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , kettch wrote

    This has already happened once in the past year. A presenter made comment about adding support for HTML apps, and people panicked and declared the end of all other development platforms. That panic was entirely unfounded.

    Microsoft fueled that panic. They were not blameless. The official responses to all the inquiries was just ridiculous. That whole stunt was completely unneeded on Microsoft's part. What the heck was the purpose and point? It was a sorry episode to unleash their Apple-envy fantasies once more. Well, Sinofsky was no Jobs. That BS backfired badly. Cargo-cult strategy in its purest form.

    And it wasn't just about HTML. Silverlight developers panicked also, and their panic was entirely justified. Their platform got shafted. WinRT is more gimped than the plug-in and is restricted to the Windows version with the slowest marketshare growth ever. So it's no replacement.

    And as a special birthday present to all the poor sods who invested into Microsoft's tooling, Windows RT runs Flash but throws a hissy fit at Silverlight. Developers, developers, developers!

    Microsoft further shows special appreciation for its .NET devs by killing off XNA and bar C# and VB from DirectX in WinRT. Thus restricting DirectX development on metro to C++ and let XNA developers on the desktop stagnate on DirectX 9. Unless you use third-party libraries. So much love!

    And WPF is such a hot topic, that no one even bothered to clean up its page on MSDN. It still refers to .NET 4.5 RC and Visual Studio 2010 as the hot new stuff.

    And to bring back the SBS topic from the last page:

    Meanwhile, Microsoft channel watcher, Richard Tubb, said news of the product's [SBS]  axe had left a bad taste in the mouth of IT professionals and end users

    The move also contradicts a lot of the cloud rhetoric Microsoft has  previously spouted about adoption being at end users own pace, he added.

    "For Microsoft to end-of-life the product and remove it from sale smacks of  not trying to persuade SMBs to move to the cloud, but of removing any other  options for them," said Tubb. "In effect, they're forcing people to accept their  worldview."

    Source

    What about the pricing jack-up of Office 2013? Only the widespread backlash forced some common-sense into Redmond. The licensing terms are still a downgrade compared to Office 2010 however.

    Yeah, right, we should just trust them they will do the right thing with the desktop.. since their track record on trust in the past few years is so amazing.

    What these examples show is that the modus operandi of NuMicrosoft means that anything can be on target to become killed-off or messed up in some way. No matter the previous lip-service. You apologists must be guzzling the Kool-Aid to not to see the worries people have with this "all-in" Microsoft. Especially with news like the one that started this thread. Was there any group of customers and/or developers Microsoft hasn't colossally pissed-off in some way in the past two years?

    If the desktop is still alive and healthy, Microsoft has the duty to state it so. They owe it after their envy-fueled run.

  • User profile image
    contextfree`

    is the assumption here that this rumored new service will be specifically providing the"desktop" in Win8 user model terms? I think it's more likely to men the entire Windows experience, but who knows.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    @contextfree`: The article seemed pretty clear that this is VDI as a service. Basically, for companies who want VDI without the overhead of building and maintaining the infrastructure.

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    , kettch wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: It's more like satire to make a point, but potayto, potahto.

    Great. Please remember that the next time you infer someone is trolling then.

    The tech industry's reaction to news/no news always seems to be rather extreme. If news is delivered too early, there's panic and then disappointment when the early message (which was taken as fact) changes over time. Then if there's not enough news, people panic. It's no wonder Microsoft gets so skittish about releasing. This has already happened once in the past year. A presenter made comment about adding support for HTML apps, and people panicked and declared the end of all other development platforms. That panic was entirely unfounded. The current round of panic is nothing different.

    That's not hyperbole, it's stuff that did happen. Right on this very forum, in fact.

    I think a lot of the "panic" is the hyperbole that defenders of Microsoft impose around the valid questions or concerns people raise about the actions or direction Microsoft takes. These questions or concerns (and their negative reaction by some) applies to any company that someone is invested in -- stock, education, employment, or otherwise. If anything I'm more frustrated with Microsoft than panicked.

    As far as Microsoft communicating or not communicating is concerned IMO they communicate poorly and then justify not communicating at all because of the reaction they get. So instead of improving their communications they just up and quit. Take the whole "always on" XBox debacle; once the cat was out of the bag they could have clarified the scope (i.e. "The XBox is always on for updates only, not for restricting the playing of single user games." or "We're exploring options to provide the best experience for our XBox users with automated updates while the device is not in use. We're also exploring other uses for always-on but we will never compromise the XBox experience for our users" ) Instead they chose to remain silent and let the comments of one of their employees stand for themselves. Before Build 2011 Microsoft was pushing HTML5/JS for W8. Lots of people complained and said WPF/SL was dead. Lots of people also said the complainers were crazy. In the end WPF/SL died in favor of WinRT. Of course you can get all upset over the words "dead" and "died" or you can accept that it's an abbreviated version of saying "Microsoft is no longer investing in".

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    cheong

    , dahat wrote

    @DeathBy​VisualStudio: Are you the sort who walks up to a McDonalds at 3am on Christmas Day... sees that the lights are off and no one there, pulls on the door then starts screaming "Oh my god! McDonalds is failing! McDonalds is obviously getting out of the food business as they are not serving me exactly what, how and when I want! The fact that this store is closed proves it!"... never mind the fact it's 3am... and on a holiday they will likely be closed during.

    A bit off topic, but FYI, most McDonalds here in Hong Kong opens on 7x24 basis. Great relief for us who occasionally need to stay overnight on different districts.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , evildictait​or wrote

    *snip*

    See, I'm not sure this is Apple-envy...

    To be clear: Microsoft's decision [...] is not just following in Apple's footsteps.

    Sure, and this is just coincidence:

     

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  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    @wastingtimewithforums: Those two stores are nothing alike. Where is the giant video wall in the Apple Store or the wood floors? I don't see any iPads in the Microsoft pics. [end sarcasm]

    And since all these Microsoft stores open up right next to Apple stores, you would think there would be some Macbook Pros setup with Windows 8, to show that Windows runs better on a mac than the other poorly built PCs. Who knows you might even sell some copies at retail pricing. With margins like that you could afford to keep the store there.

    -Jsoh

  • User profile image
    DeathBy​VisualStudio

    @wastingtimewithforums: LOL! No Apple-envy there... Not one bit. And there's where Ballmer leads...

    If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
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  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    New round of Spot-the-Difference, MS Edition:

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    There are actually 3 key differences! (headset not included)
    Can you find them?

  • User profile image
    JoshRoss

    @wastingtimewithforums: Foreign tech support?

  • User profile image
    wastingtime​withforums

    , Jsoh wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums: Foreign tech support?

    Nope. I know that was very tricky, so here's the solution:

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    Company logo on the chest at Apple, company logo on the sleeve at Microsoft, and white string holding the name tag while Microsoft's is black.

    The white string is important, since that's a huge deal at Apple:

    http://www.oilchangestore.com/motor-oil/apple-in-ear-buds-in-black-do-they-exist/

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