Coffeehouse Thread

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XBox with Windows 8 at core

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  • davewill

    Going with the Windows everywhere plan, has anyone run across any information that indicates the next XBox will use Windows 8 at its core?

  • MasterPi

    I remember rumors about it last year. No news about it has turned up recently.

  • spivonious

    @davewill: Rumors right now point to the Xbox 720 as a Windows 8 appliance with a blu-ray drive. It looks like the "MinWin" effort is paying off.

  • JoshRoss

    Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

    * Boots under 10 seconds
    * Conforms to DX11
    * Scores at level X for benchmark Y
    * No crapware allowed
    * Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
    * Supports controller spec
    * Has at least one HDMI out

    -Josh

  • magicalclick

    I think it is an obvious path. I thought Xbox is basically using windows core to begin with. DX , XNA, etc. So yeah... It is basically means the dev time is shorter with win8 core. , although they only have released win7 version of baseline or whatever that name is. I am pretty sure they will use Win8 before they make the baseline to the public.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • figuerres

    , JoshRoss wrote

    Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

    * Boots under 10 seconds
    * Conforms to DX11
    * Scores at level X for benchmark Y
    * No crapware allowed
    * Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
    * Supports controller spec
    * Has at least one HDMI out

    -Josh

    and a cable card slot !!!!!

    then no need for windows media center on the pc.

    for folks who do not know this most cable companies charge about 15 to 20 USD a month for an HD PVR set top box.

    a cable card is only about 3-4 USD a month.

    the XBOX with PVR functions and a cable card can replace the set top box and you save around 10-14 USD a month on your cable bill.

    look at what that means after 2-3 years of savings !!

    other than the card slot the only other thing MS needs to do is put the WMC channel guide features into the XBOX system.  not much work and it would make the new XBOX way better for folks who want to do that.

  • Minh

    , JoshRoss wrote

    Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

    * Boots under 10 seconds
    * Conforms to DX11
    * Scores at level X for benchmark Y
    * No crapware allowed
    * Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
    * Supports controller spec
    * Has at least one HDMI out

    -Josh

    And OEMs want to do this FOR microsoft because.......?

    Especially when PS4s are subsidized by Sony

     

  • JoshRoss

    @Minh: It would allow for the cable companies to subsidize the hardware. Instead of renting you a standard set-up box, you could have an ATT U-verse xbox or a Verizon/Comcast/Whatever xbox. WIth each box customized to work on each network.  It makes a lot of sense, considering how much of the Xbox is used for media consumption.

    -Josh

  • kettch

    , Minh wrote

    *snip*And OEMs want to do this FOR microsoft because.......?

    Especially when PS4s are subsidized by Sony

     

    And risk (same amount of risk as playing russian roulette with a full cylinder) OEMs creating crappy hardware. No, the Xbox should remain first-party. That way there is a guarantee that if you buy an Xbox vNext, then any game or application labelled for Xbox vNext will run with a known level of performance.

    And they need to get that crazy guy from the Surface presentation to build it.

  • Minh

    , JoshRoss wrote

    @Minh: It would allow for the cable companies to subsidize the hardware. Instead of renting you a standard set-up box, you could have an ATT U-verse xbox or a Verizon/Comcast/Whatever xbox. WIth each box customized to work on each network.  It makes a lot of sense, considering how much of the Xbox is used for media consumption.

    -Josh

    Most US cable markets are legal monopolies. My city is. For cable, there's only ONE provider, so they don't really care if they sell me a crappy set-top box or not. They're still getting theirs.

    That said, the local phone company are providing internet and TV now, too. But they are consistently a step behind in terms of speed.

    I know Xboxes from multiple OEMs would be a nightmare for devs. They have to test their games w/ all the different component configurations. Hello PCs.

     

  • felix9

    1, http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

    ......(XBox 720 has) a unified Windows 8 foundation to make it easier for application developers to build apps that target Xbox, PC, and Windows Phone.......

    2, https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=83367
    Want to help developers build amazing application for Widows 8, Windows Phone and XBOX? The Expression team.......

    So apparently XBox will have a XAML stack for app development.

  • magicalclick

    Just get a PC if you want OEM based Xbox.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • pavone

     We're talking about a console with limited memory, memory which will serve as a precious resource for game devs and you want to put a general purpose OS on it? 

    Consoles can do what they do even with outdated hardware precisely because they're optimized to do games. Add a general purpose OS and you have a very weak PC.

  • Sven Groot

    , JoshRoss wrote

    Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

    * Boots under 10 seconds
    * Conforms to DX11
    * Scores at level X for benchmark Y
    * No crapware allowed
    * Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
    * Supports controller spec
    * Has at least one HDMI out

    One of the major reasons game companies like developing for consoles is that you know exactly what the hardware's going to be. It makes the game easier to optimize, and easier to test (only one possible config with maybe minor variations like hard drive size).

    Not to mention that a year after release, you'll get new systems with significantly better specs than the original, and then you'll get games that won't run as well on the original systems.

    Allowing OEMs to produce their own "XBox" systems would remove one of the major advantages of consoles unless they were all required to have the exact same spec. Otherwise, you just turn them into slightly more standardized PCs with all the same problems.

  • BitFlipper

    Of course if you turn a game console into a PVR, it needs to be able to record two (at least) shows at the same time while it is playing a demanding game. If not then it is worthless as a PVR.

    My understanding is that the leaked Xbox.Next info shows that it can do that. Maybe it has dedicated hardware for that so that it doesn't slow down any gaming activity.

    I also feel the Xbox should stay 1st party. Allowing OEMs to create Xboxes will just result in the overall Xbox quality decreasing.

  • PerfectPhase

    This isn't meant to be a serious suggestion, but how about a multi-core device using Hyper-V and some of the remote-FX work.  That way you could have a parent partition that manages all the day to day stuff and could run add-ins manage the PVR system etc., and games ship as VHDs that get booted into a protected environment with it's own dedicated set of resources... 

  • figuerres

    , figuerres wrote

    *snip*

    and a cable card slot !!!!!

    then no need for windows media center on the pc.

    for folks who do not know this most cable companies charge about 15 to 20 USD a month for an HD PVR set top box.

    a cable card is only about 3-4 USD a month.

    the XBOX with PVR functions and a cable card can replace the set top box and you save around 10-14 USD a month on your cable bill.

    look at what that means after 2-3 years of savings !!

    other than the card slot the only other thing MS needs to do is put the WMC channel guide features into the XBOX system.  not much work and it would make the new XBOX way better for folks who want to do that.

     

    just to clarify my post a bit ...

    i saw the list of specs and did not read the whole post (MY Bad)

    all i was wanting is a good new spec for the new xbox that includes the cable card.

    forget the OEM stuff.

    lets just have a new xbox with updated hardware specs and OS. no need for all the windows 8 / OEM / VHD stuff....

    and i do not want cable companies having different xboxes that they rent to users! 

    i want my own box that i can do what i want to and take it with me when i move etc...

  • figuerres

    , BitFlipper wrote

    Of course if you turn a game console into a PVR, it needs to be able to record two (at least) shows at the same time while it is playing a demanding game. If not then it is worthless as a PVR.

    My understanding is that the leaked Xbox.Next info shows that it can do that. Maybe it has dedicated hardware for that so that it doesn't slow down any gaming activity.

    I also feel the Xbox should stay 1st party. Allowing OEMs to create Xboxes will just result in the overall Xbox quality decreasing.

    i have a ceton card http://cetoncorp.com/

    it is a PCI Express 1x card, it uses a standard Cable Card to handle up to 4 channels at a time of cable.  it can share the tuner with other pc's in the home or via the xbox MCE extender you can let the pc run desktop apps or use the local MC while the xbox watches a different channel at the same time.

    my system is an i7 3.6 Ghz   but when  i run MC or the XBMC i see almost zero load on the CPU/GPU  Games put more load than the Ceton / Cable Card does.

    by the way almost all of the settop boxes that you get have a cable card in the back of them.

    so the hardware in the average cable box can handle 2 streams and that hardware is not high end.

    ( I do not know if they let you record more than 2 streams in the boxes the cable company gives)

    and i can get all of the HD channels the local cable providers offer and it is exactly the same quality.

     

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